Author Topic: Project Budget CafeFighter  (Read 4554 times)

Offline Jon

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Project Budget CafeFighter
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2010, 06:43:36 PM »
After pissing about with cardboard tonight trying seat shapes I realised couple things.

1.   I couldn?t get shape I wanted (i.e. tapering to back of bike) with back section of subframe still there.

2.   Getting a decent shape, and trying to remember practicality aint easy. End of the day this has to be a more practical bike than bandit project. Needs 2 seats!

Took few pics n resorted to shaping up a plan on computer to see what way to take things.

This is original pillion seat and cowl in position which is nowhere near shape Im after. :-



The seat and cowl do taper really nicely to back end though and of course have nice compound curves and finished edges, etc to them. Cant see it in photo but tapers few inches narrower at back of seat and has nice rounded shape at tip too. :-



What Im thinking then is to chop the rest of original subframe at red lines below, which is behind structural areas Im using anyway. Then make up a welded on section to my steel crossmember which will support back end of pillon seat much lower down. :-



Pillion seat will be moved forwards several inches with new mounts so centre of its over existing crossmember anyway and supported solidly and safely. Moving pad forwards also shortens front seat slightly giving me a stubby seat unit overall shape wise. Pillion pad angled down so gives me profile Im after, and can then panel in sides as per plan and have shape Im after but 2 seats also. Summit like this rough mockup.:-



Then can run undertray sheetwork up and tuck under edge of seat cowl at back for neat finish and have just enough space behind for some sort of led lighting.:-



Dunno best idea Ive got at moment anyway to compromise between shape/2 seats. Not gonna leave me space for battery under there tho, but sure can cram it elsewhere down the line. One of the fairing side panels would easily hide a battery somewhere if cant get it under tank.

Offline Westers

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« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2010, 10:49:57 PM »
Sorry Jon, but that angled down pillion seat doesn't look right at all. I think it's because it's too aggressive with the angle, and also doesn't fit the flat top section of the tank.

Plus your pillions will hate you - they'll be sliding down the back all the time, add in a bit of acceleration.....

What about creating a single flat seat unit at the height of the main seat, but in the style of the old flat saddle units of the pre race replica era?

Side pieces could be the same as you've got now (the white bits), and the seat unit could finish just before the edge of the rear tyre to give that cafe racer look.

Offline Jon

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« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2010, 11:36:47 AM »
Had a rethink last night. Going to cut of few inches of subframe at back n have a go again at mocking up in cardboard to shape I really want as per original doodles. Want the shapes right, and space for battery under back hump, so practicality can take a back seat. Lol. Can always get one of those inflatable sucker pad pillion pads to stick on when needed.

Think Im going to have to go for 3 peice design so top is flat-ish like top of tank, but follows curved side profile as per my doodles, then run side peices up to meet it n weld together. Giving me a squarish edge, but reckon thats probably spot on given rest of bikes going to be angular anyway.

Going to try out a few variations over weekend in cardboard n see what works best.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 11:44:30 AM by Jon »

Offline Jon

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« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2010, 07:00:12 PM »
Not a shitload today. Bought some more grinder discs n neatened up back of frame, etc so had nice clear space to work with mocking up.

Spent a while mocking up several different seat shapes with scrap card n gaffer tape, which all looked good from side on profile, but absoloute wank from any other angle. Maybe its just the cardboard, but don?t think it`ll work.

Side profile looks like initial drawing.:-



Buuuuuut  of course 3 part design just doesn?t work right when move to slightly different angle n looks wank.:-




Bit disheartening, so stood back n decided to go with a really simplistic one piece curve I can easily make and see how that looked.

Not the shape I had in original doodles, but sometimes what works on screen and what works in reality from different angles are two completely different things. Lol.  Best option so far anyway shape wise. Also roughly mocked up frame angled sections to see how they`ll work in reality as curve inwards substantially to join undertray sheet work.

Side profile. :-



Only one little piece needing welded in at front. I`d weld it from behind to keep join neat. Recess it couple mm and then a bit of seat foam or upholstered little rectangle would finish surface off nicely and act as butt stop.:-



Ok from back too. Maybe trim the original front seat pad shape a bit  to match bodywork. :-



Decent space underneath to hide battery and build up a chunky bit of frame work to support it all and a stick on pillion pad when required.

Still needs a bit of playing about with the angles, etc but reckon got potential. Changes design profile a bit, but still works I think.:-



Decisions, decisions????.. Simple curve or work at 3-piece design shape some more!?!?!?!?

Plus of course I cant help but feel original seat cowl n chopped about seat pads has potential still too. Just got a nice shape about it.:-





Maybe chop down both pads and cowl length wise into something short n stubby. :-



Lot to think about. Anyone any ideas?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 07:08:10 PM by Jon »

Offline SFC

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« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2010, 07:07:15 PM »
i would lift the back of the hump to same angle as top of tank but thats just me
"your only supposed to blow the bloody door\'s off "

Offline Spank54

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« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2010, 07:50:05 PM »
I agree with SFC seat cowl needs to match lines of tank and riders seat.
It looks broken sloping down.

Offline bristol banger

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« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2010, 08:44:32 PM »
It's a shame you have to keep the pillion function as the last pic works for me, Looks different from the norm:smile: Can't help thinking your going to end up having to fit a sissy bar on it just to keep the pillion from falling off:freaked:

Steve

Offline Jon

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« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2010, 09:16:53 PM »
Yer know thinking about it a busa pillion seat cowl would be bout right size n shape. Hmm maybe.

Offline Jon

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« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2010, 12:43:51 PM »
Maybe at a lesser angle it works better n slightly more passenger friendly. Lol. Maybe 2 degrees angled back at most. Looks angled, but that?s photo really as back end of bike is good 3-4? higher than stock as ZX12R shock in there as 2-up workhorse. Practically level seat, but looks angled back in relation to tank which is look Im after.





Got a nice tapered rounded back end to it.:-



Seats flow nice together too.:-



Sorta like this mockup. Shorten front edge of back seat and cowl by 2-3? and move forwards to overlap front seat pad by couple inches too, giving a stumpy/short look. Original seat pads way too long anyway for comfort. My arse aint fat enuf to fill em. Lol. Panel in sides n curve undertray up underneath to tuck in to back edge of cowl.:-



Best I can think of tbh balancing neatness n practicality. Fairly thin profile n mismatch angle between forward slant of tank n seat cowl keeps things in line with original doodles.

Its either this or Z style single curve idea methinks. Leaning towards this tho tbh, even tho no room for battery, I reckon I`ll get a neater finish overall on panels.

Offline Jon

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« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2010, 01:22:54 PM »
Flipping around the image above gives this.:-



Doodling that profile onto original sketch n looks pretty good to me anyway.:-


 

Offline Westers

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« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2010, 10:44:40 PM »
I can see what you're trying to do Jon, and the concept drawing looks good, but the reality looks odd. However that might be because we haven't got a picture of the whole bike; post a pic of that up so we can see the concept as a whole.

At the moment I also think the rear seat is too low compared to the concept sketch. In the concept sketch the top of the rear seat is closer to the top of the rear of the tank, and also the side panels are angled upwards more. I think that might be why it doesn't quite look like the concept sketch at the moment.

Offline Jon

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« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2010, 10:05:21 AM »
Yeah its maybe the angle of the photo. I`ll get a side shot later on.

Offline Jon

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« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2010, 02:22:43 PM »
Cant get a decent picture of side on as leaning on sidestand towards me n bandit/trike, etc in way. Mockup picture I did above tho is definately at an angle which is why doesnt exactly match up with drawing. Front end lot higher than back in pcture which is why angles not as steep. Pretty confident will look like drawing above tho when at right angle.

Going to have to go for it I think n start chopping n welding.

Offline Jon

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« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2010, 06:12:56 PM »
Swear Ive spent a lot more time deciding on seat shape than took to build subframe. Lol. Way it goes sometimes with a build tho.

Decided in the end the seat cowl would stand out like sore thumb compared to rest of bodywork, and would always be just a seat cowl, so threw it in a corner. Lol.

Went back to single curve setup, trimmed right down by an inch or so with a narrower tapered rear edge, and angled down. Practicality not great, but going to make up an angled pillion seat pad that clips on, which restores seat angle to horizontal for occasions its needed. Rest of time I can have the look I want.

Rough mockup on bike. Front seat pad needs cut down by 3? I reckon to match up with bike doodles below. :-






Mocked up on original sketch. Reckon it works. Not going to be for everyone, but Im liking it. Angled back caf?tyle with a nice aggressive spike profile. Angular look matches in well with rest.  :-



Maybe sharpen up the lower panels a bit to match angles.



Still playing about with it all, but reckon it?s the way forwards. Just working through the creative process with trial n error. Sorry if its boring yer all. Lol.

Can start building up the subframe at back now tho as made a decision. Save up the kids cereal boxes n make some accurate templates n can start chopping n welding some sheet up.

Offline Maxx

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« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2010, 06:22:25 PM »
I think u nailed it there Jon I likes the look of that dare I say it retro cafe racer.....:nodyes: