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I believe absolutely that when it come to engine work particulary if it involves having the top cover or head off it is much easier to do with engine out and sitting on the bench.
Today I heard a ZXR400 story that has further convinced me.

A person bought a 2000 ZXR400 for very cheap money as a non runner only 7K miles................when he got it started it made a lot of top end noise like all the clearances were a mile out.
On inspection all clearances were fine bar one and it was because the rocker was VERY badly worn.................further inspection revealed that there was a top hat spacer in there you know the ones on fairing mounting points and on the front of the tank......................it had jammed the valve and stopped it moving and the cam lobe wore away at the rocker.........................only one way that could have got in there unnoticed and thats with the top cover off and the engine in the frame.

All fixed now and running lovely

I get your point Cargo but surely that has also been down to lazy prep before opening the engine.

Never had a problem working on the top end with engine in frame but I do remove most things around and certainly nothing is left unbolted.

When fully stripped down it was sure a doddle working on it on my work mate plus the engines sitting in Kitchen and benches out side.

But your find also shows why taking your bike to a dealership is touch n go as they work on timetables - from memory 45mins for a shim check and 90mins for exchange after that the mechanic is not paid for any time they put into the service so cutting corners becomes normal.

The only way the timetable works are on new bikes that dismantle with ease , throw a rough 15yr old bike into the equation and it all goes pear shaped.

MM!

think i would take the engine out anyway, gotta be easier to work on when its on a bench?

While we're on the subject, what's essential to drop the engine on these? Take off the side panels, Drop the coolant, oil, tank off the tank, air box, and plug caps. Disconnect the drive chain. Shift the rad and take off the exhaust. Any thing I've missed so far? Do i have to take off the oil cooler? Then what? Support the engine, undo the bolts, lower engine? Then enjoy? Any special tools needed?

gavinfdavies wrote:While we're on the subject, what's essential to drop the engine on these? Take off the side panels, Drop the coolant, oil, tank off the tank, air box, and plug caps. Disconnect the drive chain. Shift the rad and take off the exhaust. Any thing I've missed so far? Do i have to take off the oil cooler? Then what? Support the engine, undo the bolts, lower engine? Then enjoy? Any special tools needed?

Disconnect the loom where it attaches to the engine too, saves wires snagging things they shouldn't... And don't forget the neutral sensor behind the front sprocket cover

Given that all the oil is going to be sitting in the sump, if you're only going to work on the top end I think you could get away without dropping the oil. Unless you were thinking of doing an oil change anyway. But if you just wanted to do the shims......

for shims i'll be leaving it in situe, but will be packing around engine so that the only open bit will be the head as it were. forgot about the loom. how heavy is the engine? are we talking one man lift (i'm a weakling!) or two? I've heard that the complete engine/box is about 43kg, is that about right? ie a doable if evil one man lift?

I do top end engine stuff on the ZXR with the engine in the bike as theres just so much room compared to an VFR400

I do remove side-panels coils and everything else that could get in the way first.

But to be honest, it seems that if your in a state where you can drop something like that into the engine and not notice... the same thing could happen on a bench.

Sure there is always the odd chance it can happen as a genuine mistake but wouldn't you realise it was missing when you re-assemble the bike?

I dont think the engines too heavy, I carried mine from the bike to my workshop without any trouble.. the VFR engine felt heavier.

Put a jack under it and lower it down and lift the frame up over the bike

Not certain what weight the engine is but certainly I can lift and carry one for long enough to get it in and out of the van or workshop.

to get the engine in or out of the frame it is best to have two people........three is even better.................however I can do it on my own if need be

I have a modified car jack that I use to support the engine as I unbolt it and then lower it down from the frame,and raise it up into the frame when it's going back in it's a bit tricky getting it back in on my own and my bikes are at a good working height on a bench which helps a lot but I can do it alone.

I suppose if your doing a full strip down you could leave the engine sitting on the ground and lift the fram up and away

It's a lot easier dropping the engine out of a race bike because much of the clutter and pipes/wiring is just not there. I reckon from bike on bench to engine out could be less than 45 minutes if I really tried. Never timed it. Certainly I've changed an engine in a race bike while at a race meeting and still quailfied for the race

I'm not saying it's wrong to do stuff with engine in the frame but it IS easier with the engine out. I remember someone on here who did a job with the engine in the frame but dropped out and pivoting on a rear mounting bolt.......................that was the last bolt to get the engine out................for the sake of one bolt the job would have been so much easier.

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