There seems to be an intermittent fault with the hosts server, Bear with us whilst we try and resolve it.

Really bad front brakes

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
Solis560
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:24 pm

Really bad front brakes

Post by Solis560 » Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:52 pm

Good evening,

Like the topic title suggest my ZXR has some terrible front brakes.
I had the calipers cleaned and they put new seals in because the brakes were sticking, they also told me that the cylinders on the right caliper were quite a mess (safe enough to send me back on the road apparently). Brake feel was bad afterwards. Went back to the shop because I thought the lines might still have had air in them, they re-bled them and the feel was still not 100%.
The shop suggested upgrading the brake lines and MC since the bike still had the old OEM rubber lines installed.
Couple of weeks later I changed the rubber ones over for steel braided lines, brake feel still poor.
Installed a MC revision kit (this: http://i.imgur.com/S499cBg.jpg) and you guessed it, still a sh*t lever feel.
Bled the brake lines and MC multiple times and you can still pull the lever to the grip, it does have a bit of pressure but not enough to be safe on the road.
Do you guys think these symptoms are caused by the rotten cylinders? Or is there anything that I might have missed?

I guess the best option for me would be to upgrade the calipers to some kind of Nissin ones, as I have heard that the Tokico ones tend to rot quite easily.



watsonm359
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:00 pm
My Bike: ZXR400H2
Location: Norwich

Re: Really bad front brakes

Post by watsonm359 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:35 am

Despite bleeding the front brake system multiple times you still have little to no pressure, which to me could be an indication of the system not pressurizing correctly!
If there are no leaks anywhere from the MC to the calipers then it must be something internal. The replacement kit for the MC if a pattern part, may not be sealing correctly in it's cylinder although I doubt this! Has the kit been fitted the right way round?
I do know from past experience on other bikes that bleeding the front brakes are a pain the the butt and can take a while to get all the air out of the system.
However, I don't profess to be an expert, just trying to hand out past experiences.

Good luck and hopefully you'll sort the issue out.



rccaulfield
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:26 am
My Bike: zxr 400l sp
Location: Ireland

Re: Really bad front brakes

Post by rccaulfield » Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:36 pm

theres got to be air still in there man, describe how ur bleeding them? Shop sounds useless!



User avatar
CaNsA
zxr400 oc member
zxr400 oc member
Posts: 1788
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:02 pm
My Bike: ZX6R F1
Location: Liverpool

Re: Really bad front brakes

Post by CaNsA » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:20 am

CaNsA Top Tip

When bleeding the front brakes, ensure the bars are on full left lock as this places the M/C at an angle where all the air can escape.


Moderator & Skilled Ban Hammer Operator!
Has this forum helped you out? Say thanks by donating some of your hard earned cash towards running costs.

:: <=-LOADED TELLY BOXES - NO CONTRACT - NO SUBSCRIPTION - PM ME-=> ::

Solis560
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:24 pm

Re: Really bad front brakes

Post by Solis560 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:25 pm

watsonm359 wrote:Despite bleeding ... Has the kit been fitted the right way round? ... issue out.
Fitted it like it says in the manual. I think that should be alright.
rccaulfield wrote:theres got to be air still in there man, describe how ur bleeding them? Shop sounds useless!
Bled the M/C by pulling the lever > opening the banjo > closing the banjo > letting go of the lever.
The calipers I bled by putting a plastic tube over the nipple, opening it and then I pumped the lever until no air bubbles were visible in the plastic tube.
Did both sides multiple times. Brake fluid reservoir was filled at all times.
I'm going to buy a vacuum bleeder, see if that works better!
CaNsA wrote:CaNsA Top Tip
When bleeding the front brakes, ensure the bars are on full left lock as this places the M/C at an angle where all the air can escape.
Will do! Thanks for the tip.

Also I found some Nissin calipers of the CBR600F ('99) for €50 each at a scrapyard. To get or not to get, that is the question.



rccaulfield
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:26 am
My Bike: zxr 400l sp
Location: Ireland

Re: Really bad front brakes

Post by rccaulfield » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:59 pm

Vacuum bleeder is the only way a tiny bjt of air will get back in somtimes. Shouldnt be any need to mess with banjo bolts bit of air likely to get in aswell. Just get a one man bleeder and start again. Poxy job!



bumble72
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:03 pm
My Bike: ZXR 400L
Location: Sheffield, S. Yorkshire

Re: Really bad front brakes

Post by bumble72 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:21 am

Solis560 wrote:
Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:25 pm
watsonm359 wrote:Despite bleeding ... Has the kit been fitted the right way round? ... issue out.
Fitted it like it says in the manual. I think that should be alright.
rccaulfield wrote:theres got to be air still in there man, describe how ur bleeding them? Shop sounds useless!
Bled the M/C by pulling the lever > opening the banjo > closing the banjo > letting go of the lever.
The calipers I bled by putting a plastic tube over the nipple, opening it and then I pumped the lever until no air bubbles were visible in the plastic tube.
Did both sides multiple times. Brake fluid reservoir was filled at all times.
I'm going to buy a vacuum bleeder, see if that works better!
CaNsA wrote:CaNsA Top Tip
When bleeding the front brakes, ensure the bars are on full left lock as this places the M/C at an angle where all the air can escape.
Will do! Thanks for the tip.

Also I found some Nissin calipers of the CBR600F ('99) for €50 each at a scrapyard. To get or not to get, that is the question.
>> So how did it go with your brakes. Mine are also fully squidgy. I,ve read somewhere on this site that cbr600 callipers are much more effective.hmmm



Solis560
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:24 pm

Re: Really bad front brakes

Post by Solis560 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:12 pm

Still not great mate. :smt009
Bled them last last night (clear tube over nipple, pump under pressure on lever, open and close the nipple all while keeping the lever fully engaged).
Left the brake with a zip-tie to have the pads, which are still pretty new, form to the disk.
Had great feeling in the morning, but after a while I could bring it all the way to the bar again. Pumping the lever relieves the issue temporarily.
Could it be that air is stuck behind the pistons?



bendog66
L-plate hell
L-plate hell
Posts: 478
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:12 am
My Bike: ZXR400 L4, ZX6R F1 track
Location: Chesterfield

Re: Really bad front brakes

Post by bendog66 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:46 am

Try opening the bleed nipple, squeezing the lever, closing the bleed nipple before releasing the lever, repeat lots of times



bumble72
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:03 pm
My Bike: ZXR 400L
Location: Sheffield, S. Yorkshire

Re: Really bad front brakes

Post by bumble72 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:00 pm

Hi Solis

My zxr400l,s brakes feel crappy too. They do pull me up in time but I have yet tried the effect in an emergency.
Did you try try the cbr600s calipers and are they a direct fit to the zxr400 mounting holes? That,d be handy wouldn't. If not, how do you get em to to fit?
Cheers.
Bumble72



Solis560
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:24 pm

Re: Really bad front brakes

Post by Solis560 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:15 pm

I did not get the CBR600F4 calipers, so I cant tell you anything about those. I did however get SV1000 (2005) calipers and they went on relatively straight forward. Just need a spacer.



bumble72
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:03 pm
My Bike: ZXR 400L
Location: Sheffield, S. Yorkshire

Re: Really bad front brakes

Post by bumble72 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:23 pm

Ah and how are the SV 2005 calipers?
Fingers crossed.

So what make of caliper does the Sv1000 have then?
And can I ask as I,m a bit mechanically AWOL, by spacer, does that mean a washer or something else?

Ta :-)



bumble72
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:03 pm
My Bike: ZXR 400L
Location: Sheffield, S. Yorkshire

Re: Really bad front brakes

Post by bumble72 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:08 pm

Solis560 wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:15 pm
I did not get the CBR600F4 calipers, so I cant tell you anything about those. I did however get SV1000 (2005) calipers and they went on relatively straight forward. Just need a spacer.

I was looking up SV caliper and came across this website which usefully describes an SV caliper rebuild in easy to follow lingo for the mechanically decripit, like me :-/.

http://www.svrider.com/forum/#/topics/61506



Solis560
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:24 pm

Re: Really bad front brakes

Post by Solis560 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:35 pm

bumble72 wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:23 pm
Ah and how are the SV 2005 calipers?
Fingers crossed.

So what make of caliper does the Sv1000 have then?
And can I ask as I,m a bit mechanically AWOL, by spacer, does that mean a washer or something else?

Ta :-)
Sorry for the late reply mate!
They are Tokicos, like the ZXR brakes. But these are better quality, they're not as prone to gunking up as the stock ones are.
If you take a look at my other thread you can see which spacer we used, this is to fit the M8 bolt and to align the caliper with the disc.
(http://www.zxrworld.co.uk/zxr400oc/view ... 21&t=18018)

After many rounds of bleeding the system we still could not manage to get a proper brake feel, it was better than before but not great. So we took it down to a local bike shop and had them take a look at it, turns out that the discs were bent (at least one was)...
Looking at another big bill (~600€) to have those replaced my brother (it was his bike) decided it was enough and he put it up for sale for someone else to tinker on. If it does not sell soon we'll keep it to ourselves for us to learn our mechanical skills on (and to fix the brake issue biggrin ).



Post Reply