Totally stumped on non starting fault

Moderator: Moderators

Degener8
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:27 am
My Bike: Daytona 675

Totally stumped on non starting fault

Post by Degener8 »

Ive looked as best I can round old threads and I cant find anything similar, any help will be greatly appreciated!

this has me totally stumped. My ZXR400 will not turn over.

Its a ZXR 400 L4 Track bike, its keyless and runs total loss.

It has a Dynatech ignition advance unit with rev limit and ignition advance adjustments,
Electric loom has been stripped down so no key required but the starter motor is still present so no having to bump start.

Things ive done -

Fully charged battery ( used another brand new battery as well)
Replaced starter relay (solenoid)
Replaced Starter Motor
Completely cleaned all contacts.
Fuse all okay

When I turn on the power I get dash lights, I press the start and you hear the solenoid thud but nothing else, dash lights dim at the same time but thats it.

I havent checked the battery out put because I dont have the equipment. But I did boost it off of another 12v and it did the same thing..

Someone please help :( im new to this but I really want to crack this without shelling out for a mechanic.

Everything I replaced was installed exactly the same as it came out and as per the workshop manual pdf.

This bike runs total loss, so no alternator.

What are the odds that 2 starter motors are shagged?

I really hope its something small but something ive missed.

Cheers in advance.
zimm
zxr400 oc member
zxr400 oc member
Posts: 2320
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:32 am
My Bike: ZXR400-M4, ZX4, ZX6R.
Location: Herefordshire

Re: Totally stumped on non starting fault

Post by zimm »

skipped the gasket on the generator/alternator casing ?

often without it there's insufficient clearance for the starter motor idler to spin when you hit the button
Degener8
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:27 am
My Bike: Daytona 675

Re: Totally stumped on non starting fault

Post by Degener8 »

zimm wrote:skipped the gasket on the generator casing ?

often without it there's insufficient clearance for the starter motor idler to spin when you hit the button
I dont mean to sound like a absolute novice.. But I dont know what you mean? I didn't mod this bike myself I just bought it as a non runner due to an allegedly broken starter motor . How would I check what your referring to?
zimm
zxr400 oc member
zxr400 oc member
Posts: 2320
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:32 am
My Bike: ZXR400-M4, ZX4, ZX6R.
Location: Herefordshire

Re: Totally stumped on non starting fault

Post by zimm »

loosen the bolts holding the generator/alternator cover onto the the engine by a turn or two and try the starter.. if it works then remove the cover, fit a gasket if there isnt one (or fit a 2nd if there is) and you're sorted :)

basically inside that casing there's an idler gear that sits between the starter motor pinion and the starter clutch.. if the casing is too tight it clamps onto that gear and prevents it spinning, so trying to start on the button results in a hot starter motor and dim lights whilst bump starting works fine.
User avatar
Miles
zxr400 oc member
zxr400 oc member
Posts: 498
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:00 pm
My Bike: ZXR 400 L3
Location: Bangor, Northern Ireland

Re: Totally stumped on non starting fault

Post by Miles »

Take the generator cover off and see if there's a gasket still there
Degener8
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:27 am
My Bike: Daytona 675

Re: Totally stumped on non starting fault

Post by Degener8 »

zimm wrote:loosen the bolts holding the generator/alternator cover onto the the engine by a turn or two and try the starter.. if it works then remove the cover, fit a gasket if there isnt one (or fit a 2nd if there is) and you're sorted :)

basically inside that casing there's an idler gear that sits between the starter motor pinion and the starter clutch.. if the casing is too tight it clamps onto that gear and prevents it spinning, so trying to start on the button results in a hot starter motor and dim lights whilst bump starting works fine.
Mint il try it as soon as im home from work and get back to you, cheers guys!
Degener8
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:27 am
My Bike: Daytona 675

Re: Totally stumped on non starting fault

Post by Degener8 »

Just one more thing, if the starter motor is unable to physically turn. But you keep asking it to electrically would this discharge the battery quite rapidly?
zimm
zxr400 oc member
zxr400 oc member
Posts: 2320
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:32 am
My Bike: ZXR400-M4, ZX4, ZX6R.
Location: Herefordshire

Re: Totally stumped on non starting fault

Post by zimm »

yes, and burn out the starter
Degener8
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:27 am
My Bike: Daytona 675

Re: Totally stumped on non starting fault

Post by Degener8 »

zimm wrote:yes, and burn out the starter
I think we might have a winner then.. Hope the starter isnt shagged though through my ignorance . As soon as im home il check. Really appreciate this!
zimm
zxr400 oc member
zxr400 oc member
Posts: 2320
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:32 am
My Bike: ZXR400-M4, ZX4, ZX6R.
Location: Herefordshire

Re: Totally stumped on non starting fault

Post by zimm »

no worries, hope it helps ..

had this on an H2 i bought with the same symptoms.
Degener8
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:27 am
My Bike: Daytona 675

Re: Totally stumped on non starting fault

Post by Degener8 »

zimm wrote:no worries, hope it helps ..
had this on an H2 i bought with the same symptoms.
Just got my mrs to do as you said and it hasn't worked still the same single Solenoid click when the starter is pressed and nothing else. Is there anything else I can do?

Everything you mentioned added up to the tight casing possibility.. :( really hoped that was it
User avatar
Miles
zxr400 oc member
zxr400 oc member
Posts: 498
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:00 pm
My Bike: ZXR 400 L3
Location: Bangor, Northern Ireland

Re: Totally stumped on non starting fault

Post by Miles »

Have you measured to see if your getting power to the starter motor from the solenoid?

If you connect the battery directly to the starter motor, therefore bypassing the solenoid, you can rule that out
Degener8
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:27 am
My Bike: Daytona 675

Re: Totally stumped on non starting fault

Post by Degener8 »

Miles wrote:Have you measured to see if your getting power to the starter motor from the solenoid?

If you connect the battery directly to the starter motor, therefore bypassing the solenoid, you can rule that out
Thanks Il try that next, if I bypass the solenoid should I expect the starter motor to set off on its own when the battery is connected up!? Or do I still have to press the start button?
User avatar
Miles
zxr400 oc member
zxr400 oc member
Posts: 498
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:00 pm
My Bike: ZXR 400 L3
Location: Bangor, Northern Ireland

Re: Totally stumped on non starting fault

Post by Miles »

If you undo the positive cable then connect another piece of wire directly to the starter motor terminal, from the positive terminal on the battery, it will spin by its self as you have bypassed all switches.

This will tell you if the solenoid is at fault or if the cables from the battery-solenoid-starter motor is the problem.

Obviously if the starter motor doesn't spin then it's either the battery or the starter motor it's self. Or a bad piece of wire that you used to test
Degener8
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:27 am
My Bike: Daytona 675

Re: Totally stumped on non starting fault

Post by Degener8 »

Awesome , il get on that as soon as im home and update :) thanks for being patient. Im not completely hopeless at this normally I just hand it over to a mechanic and pay someone else to do it. But you dont learn anything that way :)
Post Reply