1994 ZXR 400 Headlight Relay Blowing

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Rokkin
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My Bike: 1994 ZXR 400

1994 ZXR 400 Headlight Relay Blowing

Post by Rokkin »

Hi all,
I have a 1994 ZXR 400 that I bought about a month ago. It has recently been brought back to life after sitting in storage since 2013.

On the way home after buying it the headlights went out. After a quick scramble to the roadside I realised it was something other than the build. After a bit of testing and research I found the problem to be the relay in the junction box. I ordered a second hand junction box but I needed the bike for work so I ran a jumper from the 10amp low beam fuse to the headlight wire until the junction box arrived.

Once it arrived and installed the headlights worked perfectly. I left the jumper under the seat just in case it ever happened again.

I must of jinxed it because 2 weeks on and riding back from Hunstanton at 10:30pm and out goes the headlights. I reconnected the jumper and rode home.

I'm at a loss as to what could be causing the relay to fry. I had a 1993 ZXR 400 for a while up until November last year and hadn't come across this issue with it.

I've done a bit of research and found that the 2000-2002 ZX6 had a problem where a connector within the stator wire would fail causing a high voltage spike that would fry the relay but I can't find any such connector on my 400.

Any insight would be very much appreciated.
Kind regards,
Mr. Rokkin
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banner001
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Re: 1994 ZXR 400 Headlight Relay Blowing

Post by banner001 »

So i assume its blowing just the electromagnetic coil side of the relay and not the switch side - thats how you can mount a physical jumper to give you power to your headlights, that helps to narrow it down.

First off just check that your starter solenoid has a 30A fuse, your headlights are using a 10A and your main beam is using a 15A.

Power is going from the reg/rec brown wire, through your fusebox headlights fuse through a blue wire to your RHS switchgear. When you push that switch from OFF through to ON you send that power down the blue/yellow wire to your LHS high/low beam switch, if this is set to low/dipped then power goes through the red/yellow wire to your dipped beams. If it is set to high power it is diverted along the red/black wire up to your coil side of the relay and dumped to ground. Power passes through the relay, energises the coil which activates the electro magnet and closes the high beam switch.

Now power comes from the white wire from the reg/rec and goes into the fusebox, through the high beam fuse, and exits via the red/green whire and goes into the high beam relay. It now exits the relay down the red whire wire and heads for the ignition barrel connector where it changes to a white/brown wire, goes into the ignition barrel and exits as a orange/green wire back to the connector block, it now leaves this connector block as a red/black wire and powers your high beams...

So you need to first check over the general condition of several components, your alternator, reg/rec, fusebox and ignition barrel. If they check out fine you need to inspect and clean the contacts in their connector blocks and on the component themselves. Following on i would be suspecting damage to the notoriously bad white wire from the reg rec to fusebox as a likely culprit.

If you take a look at your loom and realise its too far gone with damage etc we have a loom maker who makes brand new ones for a very good price (viewtopic.php?f=125&t=17956).
UK ZXR400 L3 (1993) - Fully restored and on the roads, my green beast!
JPN ZXR250 A2 (1990) - Revs to 19,200rpm... 'nuff said :smt003
Rokkin
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My Bike: 1994 ZXR 400

Re: 1994 ZXR 400 Headlight Relay Blowing

Post by Rokkin »

Thank you for the reply.
I have checked the components and found that the connector for the reg/rec was loose. Further inspection of the wiring shows that there is a section of the white wire about 2 inches from the connector block where it has been soldered together. Following the white wire further into the loom and it connects with 2 other white wires going to the back of the bike and one white wire going to the front of the bike. The joining of the 3-1 looks very clean. However the soldered section appears to have a heavier gauge wire going into the connector than that of the other section that connects at the 3-1.

If that makes any sense. Started to confuse myself.

The brown wire from the reg/rec also junctions into other brown wires. One of which runs to the junction box as you mentioned. The female connection at the connector block was really loose and slipped out of the connector block very easily with almost no force.

I have secured the brown wire connection but I'm a little unsure what to do about the white wire. Though it looks messy at the soldering point, I simply do not have the electrical expertise to tell if it's a good join or bad. It does have 12v going through it.

Kind regards,
Mr. Rokkin
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Re: 1994 ZXR 400 Headlight Relay Blowing

Post by banner001 »

The jointing of the white wire seems correct, it should go from the reg rev to the ignition barrel/starter solenoid/fusebox. I would next check your charging system, i.e. your alternator output, along with any alternator shorts, your reg rev output at different revs and with different lighting settings and see if the bike seems fine. If it does, then I would go for a ride with lights on dipped, trying to use high beam as much as possible, even if it's daytime and see if you now have a reliable high beam. If not, and your sure your components are fine then I would look at replacing that white wire and it's joints...it's a known problem wire, or get a new, better loom from Kev
UK ZXR400 L3 (1993) - Fully restored and on the roads, my green beast!
JPN ZXR250 A2 (1990) - Revs to 19,200rpm... 'nuff said :smt003
Rokkin
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My Bike: 1994 ZXR 400

Re: 1994 ZXR 400 Headlight Relay Blowing

Post by Rokkin »

Thanks again for the reply.

I'll do as you've suggested this week. I'll also need to order another junction box.

I hadn't thought about the charging system until you mentioned it. Both times I've lost the headlights was soon after switching on the high beams. Looking more likely to be this problematic white wire as you've suggested.

When you suggested replacing the white wire did you mean the entire wire from the reg/rec to the ignition/solenoid/fuse box?

I'll try getting to the bottom of it. Or at the very least rule out components such as the alternator etc. If the problem is in the wiring and I'm likely to have more issues from this loom later on then I'll likely just replace it with the improved loom.

Thanks again.
Kind regards,
Mr. Rokkin
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Re: 1994 ZXR 400 Headlight Relay Blowing

Post by banner001 »

I would check your alternator and reg rec outputs, as well as continuity, and shorts to ground first before attacking the loom.

On the subject of the white wire, its definitely a repair at some point, most likely culprit was the reg rec blowing in the past and it fried the white wire closest to the connector block, hence why that bits been cut and soldered...furthermore, solder should never be used as a primary means of joining 2 wires on something that moves and vibrates, the heat and stress will cause it to fail, joints should always be crimped connections first, and then solder if you wish, followed by electrical tape - im not a fan of heat shrink as it causes hard spots in the loom.

If it is the white wire you should really replace the whole 4 runs of it, it takes a lot of current and its likely that the old copper is starting to get brittle and oxidised, if you have a mate that can do electrics get him to peel back some of the current electrical tape around these 4 bits of the loom, de-pin the white wire pins, and run a new section of properly jointed white wire between the 4 connector blocks and leave it "outside" of the loom for the moment, that way you can get the bike running again and see if the problem manifests itself again.

do you have a multi-meter? you said that your headlight relay was blowing...i assume that its not taking out bulbs with it, and its just the headlight relay? It would be handy for me to know which side of the relay is failing...ive got to imagine its the electromagnetic coil...but it would be nice to be sure.
UK ZXR400 L3 (1993) - Fully restored and on the roads, my green beast!
JPN ZXR250 A2 (1990) - Revs to 19,200rpm... 'nuff said :smt003
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Re: 1994 ZXR 400 Headlight Relay Blowing

Post by banner001 »

You can test your relay like HERE in this video, our relays dont have a pin diagram, but what you need to do is connect your battery to the pins that correspond to these wires:
12V +ve to red/black
12V -ve to black/yellow

and connect a multimeter set to the lowest resistance range (polarity doesnt matter) to the pins that correspond to these wires:
red/green
red/white

as in the video, when you send power to the relay you should be able to hear, or feel the relay click (i guess that this is the bit thats dead in your relay), this should also send your resistance from infinity to almost zero ohms.

to check your relay, intermitently give it power with a multimeter permanantly connected, one of 3 things will happen:
relay clicks when power is applied, resistance alternates between infinity and zero - your relay is good, the issue is probably not the relay.
relay clicks when power is applied, resistance stays high - you have a break in the switch side, relay is dead
relay clicks when power is applied, resistance is low and doesnt change - open short in the switch, i.e. its always switched on, relay is dead
relay doesnt click when power applied - the relay has a break in the coil side, relay is dead
UK ZXR400 L3 (1993) - Fully restored and on the roads, my green beast!
JPN ZXR250 A2 (1990) - Revs to 19,200rpm... 'nuff said :smt003
Rokkin
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My Bike: 1994 ZXR 400

Re: 1994 ZXR 400 Headlight Relay Blowing

Post by Rokkin »

Hello again,
I do have a multimeter and I'll do the checks today. I'm doing an oil change and I have to replace the neutral switch. It failed the day after the headlights failed.

I'll see if I can get pictures of my findings. I.e. Condition of the wiring and test results.
The headlights bulbs are not blowing. I assume the problem is the relay but I don't know as of yet for definite. What I do know is the headlights are not blowing nor is the headlight fuses. I have the jumper from the 10amp dip beam fuse to the blue/yellow wire. This gives me high and low beam as well as my passing light.

Going to watch the video and I'll report back my findings.

Thank you so much for your help with this.
Kind regards,
Mr. Rokkin
Rokkin
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Re: 1994 ZXR 400 Headlight Relay Blowing

Post by Rokkin »

I don't seem to have a black/yellow going into the junction box. Doesn't look like a re/white one either. Could this mean that it's been worked on before or more likely because it's an import.

I will see if I can find which pins I need using the colour code I have. Here is the a picture of the jumper and one of the wiring going into the junction box.

Image

Image

Kind regards,
Mr. Rokkin
Rokkin
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My Bike: 1994 ZXR 400

Re: 1994 ZXR 400 Headlight Relay Blowing

Post by Rokkin »

Even looking here at the Non U.K. Wiring diagram it doesn't appear to match what I have.
Still looking to see if I can find the pins that I should be connecting to regardless of the colour combinations. That is of course assuming the junction box is the same for all L4's regardless of region.

Image

Kind regards,
Mr. Rokkin
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Re: 1994 ZXR 400 Headlight Relay Blowing

Post by banner001 »

Ah, i see our problem, you mentioned headlight relay, so i thought you ment the UK headlight relay box that sends power to the headlights...in your hand is the junction box, correct, i would have called it a fuse box.

im pretty sure there is no relay for the headlights in the junction box/fusebox, its just pins and fuses...

...so do you mean that its just frying the fuse or an internal connection in the junction box/fusebox when you have your high bean on?
UK ZXR400 L3 (1993) - Fully restored and on the roads, my green beast!
JPN ZXR250 A2 (1990) - Revs to 19,200rpm... 'nuff said :smt003
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banner001
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Re: 1994 ZXR 400 Headlight Relay Blowing

Post by banner001 »

your CDi is an L1-3 model Japanese but your loom looks like a modified UK L1-4, although that blue/yellow wire shouldnt be there at all and neither should the red/blue. What numbers are written on your junction box, is it 26021-1072 (UK L4) or 26021-1080 (Japan L1-L4)?
UK ZXR400 L3 (1993) - Fully restored and on the roads, my green beast!
JPN ZXR250 A2 (1990) - Revs to 19,200rpm... 'nuff said :smt003
Rokkin
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My Bike: 1994 ZXR 400

Re: 1994 ZXR 400 Headlight Relay Blowing

Post by Rokkin »

I'm very sorry for the confusion. My description of things can be a little vague. Though I'm trying to include as much information as possible I can appreciate not everyone wans to read a novels worth of text to find a small fault. :smt003
The numbers on the Junction Box are 26021-1080.

Having the wrong colour coded wires is really concerning. It's made fault finding a bit difficult because these wires aren't matching any of the schematics I'm looking at. What I've learned so far is through physical tracing of the wires.

That being said. I thought the problem originated here:
Image

I removed the cover to have a look inside. Part number: Nec MR 301-N9 4A2. A search on line listed it as a relay and because neither of the headlight fuses were blowing I hazard a guess that one of the two Nec relays were at fault. I was going to test them but couldn't find out what pins went to what.

After a closer inspection of the board I found a lot of corrosion here:
Image
Doesn't look so bad here but this is after I tried cleaning it up.

I haven't opened the replacement Junction Box because I'm still using the jumper wire on it. When the jumper wire is in place I seem to have no problem with low/high or passing light. With the fuses not blowing and everything working fine when the jumper is in place I figured I would replace the Junction Box and things would be fine.

However it's happened twice now under the same circumstances (shortly after switching to high beams). Also, soon after the headlights failed the first time, the Neutral sensor/switch failed. So I had no headlights and I couldn't start the bike without having the side stand up and holding in the clutch.

I didn't want to bypass the side stand switch so I dealt with it until the new nuetral switch arrived. Though probably not related, I was concerned about the entegrity of the electrical components since the bike had been recently brought back to life after being stored since 2013. The bike had traveled only 31 miles from 2013 to one month ago when I purchased it.

Image
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Re: 1994 ZXR 400 Headlight Relay Blowing

Post by banner001 »

Rokkin wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 12:24 pm
I'm very sorry for the confusion. My description of things can be a little vague. Though I'm trying to include as much information as possible I can appreciate not everyone wans to read a novels worth of text to find a small fault. :smt003
The numbers on the Junction Box are 26021-1080.

Having the wrong colour coded wires is really concerning. It's made fault finding a bit difficult because these wires aren't matching any of the schematics I'm looking at. What I've learned so far is through physical tracing of the wires.

That being said. I thought the problem originated here:
Image

I removed the cover to have a look inside. Part number: Nec MR 301-N9 4A2. A search on line listed it as a relay and because neither of the headlight fuses were blowing I hazard a guess that one of the two Nec relays were at fault. I was going to test them but couldn't find out what pins went to what.

Im pretty sure that that relay is your starter lockout relay, it checks to see if you are in neutral, where your side stand is, and if your clutch is pulled in or not, this allows it to decide if you can start your bike at all, or if it can be allowed to pull away in gear, none of the wiring for the lights should go anywhere near this! the wiring for the lights should ONLY go to the fuses

After a closer inspection of the board I found a lot of corrosion here:
Image
Doesn't look so bad here but this is after I tried cleaning it up.

I haven't opened the replacement Junction Box because I'm still using the jumper wire on it. When the jumper wire is in place I seem to have no problem with low/high or passing light. With the fuses not blowing and everything working fine when the jumper is in place I figured I would replace the Junction Box and things would be fine.

However it's happened twice now under the same circumstances (shortly after switching to high beams). Also, soon after the headlights failed the first time, the Neutral sensor/switch failed. So I had no headlights and I couldn't start the bike without having the side stand up and holding in the clutch.

This is your problem, you have a mismatch between your wiring loom colours, where they are coming from, and where they should be going to. Unfortunatly without you bringing me the bike i cant physically help you, all i can tell you is that you are going to have to trace the wires that should go to your fuses and find out what is connected to what colours, then you need to work out what fuses need to be in place, and make a temporary extension from your connector block to the fusebox, but with the wires in the correct orientation

I didn't want to bypass the side stand switch so I dealt with it until the new nuetral switch arrived. Though probably not related, I was concerned about the entegrity of the electrical components since the bike had been recently brought back to life after being stored since 2013. The bike had traveled only 31 miles from 2013 to one month ago when I purchased it.

Image
As for the relay that you didnt take the top off, is it connected to anything underneath? i dont see any reason for having a second relay in the fusebox other than it being a redundant one from a similar production line? also you will only have to use 3 of the fuses in the fusebox,
fan/rear lights/dipped beams, the import bikes dont use the 15A main beam fuse.
UK ZXR400 L3 (1993) - Fully restored and on the roads, my green beast!
JPN ZXR250 A2 (1990) - Revs to 19,200rpm... 'nuff said :smt003
Kevh1070
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Re: 1994 ZXR 400 Headlight Relay Blowing

Post by Kevh1070 »

Hi,looking at your photos & non U.K. Wiring diagram( component 12 on diagram isn't shown yet listed) plus resoldering my own uk spec fuse box Im drawing a rough conclusion that the left hand relay you have ringed is a internal h/light relay. I'm basing this on the current info & that I did a continuity test on the rear of the pub & found that some of the unused solder points are linked to the headlight circuit, also import bikes where running lower rated bulbs. Therefore a more compact relay of lower capacity is housed within the fuse box.
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