Misfire when cold, fine once up to temperature

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Re: Misfire when cold, fine once up to temperature

Post by banner001 »

that camchain tensioner is fine...the chain is out of use when the lower (larger) metal rod is pressed flat against the aluminium engine body (and hence cant move any more)...your has loads of life left in it.

make sure you check the tensioner blade...how to explain, that lower metal rod (the larger one) pushes the small one upwards through the aluminium...well this smaller metal rod has a pointed end with a groove cut into it...onto that groove is hooked your cam chain tensioner blade, its a metal blade backed with a stiff plastic - the chain is tensioned by being in contact with this tensioner blade plastic, where the tensioner blade and the small metal rod meet (the pointed end with the groove cut in it) the tensioner blade should be a continuous piece of metal looped over this metal rod...these can sometimes break and leave you with a C shaped piece of metal loose which normally magnetizes itself to a bolt or something else in the pulsar area...you might wanna check the tensioner blade to make sure it is not broken.

and yes, you need to get on and do your valve clearances...its not an optional extra, gotta check it every 6000 miles.
UK ZXR400 L3 (1993) - Fully restored and on the roads, my green beast!
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Re: Misfire when cold, fine once up to temperature

Post by Vaughn »

Happy days that's good to hear, I found some pictures in another thread of what it should look like so thought it was ok but thought it better to get a second opinion

I did have a look and I know the bit you mean on the tensioner, I thought it had snapped but it turns out it's meant to be on the angle like that lol. Thanks for the advice though I will probe deeper now and check the tensioner blade more thoroughly.

Still waiting on a set of angled feeler guages, I bought the draper ones so hopefully they should be half decent this time, I will calibrate them with my vernier caliper to see for sure.
As soon as they turn up I can crack on with the clearances, rocker cover is off and I have a piece of plastic covering the open head so I'm ready for action, was thinking about polishing the rocker cover but what's the point, I cleaned it and gave it a good scrub so that'll do

Cheers for the advice
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Re: Misfire when cold, fine once up to temperature

Post by banner001 »

you cant calibrate feeler gauges with a vernier gauge, you need a micrometer.

a vernier is too imprecise unfortunatly...
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Re: Misfire when cold, fine once up to temperature

Post by Vaughn »

Damn it, I was looking at buying a micrometer but when I searched them on eBay vernier callipers kept popping up with micrometer in the title so I just thought it was probably the same thing,
I'll get one ordered asap
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Re: Misfire when cold, fine once up to temperature

Post by ross46 »

I've never heard of calibrating feeler guages? Is that literally just checking they are the correct thickness?
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Re: Misfire when cold, fine once up to temperature

Post by banner001 »

you dont need to calibrate your feeler gauges, but as the OP was asking ive told him how.

a vernier/digital vernier is accurate to 0.02mm, a good modern vernier with a dial is accurate to 0.01mm, a micrometer is accurate to 0.002mm ten times that of a vernier.

its all to do with length, accuracy decreases with the length of the instrument, a vernier with a 10m span will never be as accurate as a vernier with a 20cm span as the errors will be magnified along the 10m length more than over 20cm. micrometers usually only have a very small span, typically 1-2 inches maximum, for bigger distances you buy a micrometer with a large starting gap, if you want to measure something accuratly thats 30cm in diameter you will buy a micrometer that has a ~28cm gap at its "zero" point, as you get ~5cm of span you can accuratly measure the diameter of something between 28-33cm...

i doubt you will need to calibrate your feeler gauges, you dont need your shims to be that spot on that they all give identical clearances (indeed unless you have a lathe to miss your own shims, you wont get them all identical) you just need to make sure that they are in-spec, and if you think they are a bit on the tight side consider setting them to the loose end of the scale.
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Re: Misfire when cold, fine once up to temperature

Post by Vaughn »

ross46 wrote:I've never heard of calibrating feeler guages? Is that literally just checking they are the correct thickness?
That's right, I have a couple of sets of feelers already but they are all slightly different sizes from each other so can't trust them, cheap Chinese crap I guess.
Got a snap on set but all the writing has rubbed of them and I think they are imperial anyway.
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Re: Misfire when cold, fine once up to temperature

Post by banner001 »

Vaughn wrote:
ross46 wrote:I've never heard of calibrating feeler guages? Is that literally just checking they are the correct thickness?
That's right, I have a couple of sets of feelers already but they are all slightly different sizes from each other so can't trust them, cheap Chinese crap I guess.
Got a snap on set but all the writing has rubbed of them and I think they are imperial anyway.
mine are imperial, its perfectly fine for doing your valve clearances, all you need to do is work out if the gauge felt tight or loose.

e.g. the 0.152mm gauge goes in and it feels loose, but the 0.178mm wont go, therefore the gap is probably around the 0.165-0.178mm range.
the 0.152mm gauge goes in but its tight, therefore the gap is around 0.152-0.16mm

again though, your not on a tuned race bike that needs very precise clearances, your gauges will be fine, and the range is pretty large, 0.12-0.17mm inlet, 0.16-0.21mm exhaust
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Re: Misfire when cold, fine once up to temperature

Post by Vaughn »

Yeah I know what your saying but I would rather have a decent set that are reasonably accurate to start with. I'm terrible with maths as well so the thought of converting imperial to metric has put me off
Even gapping the plugs was a nightmare lol, had 3 different sets of gauges and 3 different readings lol

I've ordered a micrometer now as well
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Re: Misfire when cold, fine once up to temperature

Post by ross46 »

good to have a micrometer anyway, but with the valves because the only do them in 0.05mm incremements and the tolerance is a 0.05 difference it means that they will never be very good, hence why i was looking at getting an extremely accurate set of feeler guages and doing the clearances perfect to see what it does. i have access to a lathe at school so could probably use that
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Re: Misfire when cold, fine once up to temperature

Post by Vaughn »

ross46 wrote:good to have a micrometer anyway, but with the valves because the only do them in 0.05mm incremements and the tolerance is a 0.05 difference it means that they will never be very good, hence why i was looking at getting an extremely accurate set of feeler guages and doing the clearances perfect to see what it does. i have access to a lathe at school so could probably use that
Good idea with the lathe, I take it you mean to make shims??
There's an engineering company down the road that my dad worked for when he was alive, I'm thinking of going there and getting some valves made up, could get them to knock up a load of shims as well.
I wonder what grade metal they use in the factory and whether it would be wise to get the valves made stronger than standard.
Only risk I guess is if the cam chain snapped or it dropped a valve there would be more engine damage than with softer valves. There again if something like that did happen the engines gonna be a mess anyway.
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Re: Misfire when cold, fine once up to temperature

Post by Vaughn »

I have decided I'm calling the 400 "pandora" after Pandora's box obviously.

Got the pipes and manifold off today, found a big crack where the 2 lots of tubes meet, I'll have to get the welder on it at some point, it is at least 2-3 inches where a join has split
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379014623.717139.jpg
As you can see there is a fair bit of thread showing on cylinder 2 so hopefully might get them out, a couple of the other studs are bent as well,
Was tempted to get my cam shaped stud remover on them but I've ordered a set of the socket style stud removers so just got to hold back the temptation till they turn up, got a can of plus gas on its way as well so might get lucky.
I noticed at least 2 of the studs aren't screwed all the way in either so might have to get the tap and die set out and clean the threads up in there. Just hope there's no more nasty surprises in store

My feeler gauges turned up today so I'll crack on with the clearances Saturday, hopefully the micrometer might turn up by then as well.
I had a little look earlier and lined the t up with the join on the case and then got my mirror behind the cam sprocket and it looks like the line doesn't line up with the rocker cover line.
I need a brighter light though so I'll wait till Saturday and get stuck in. I'll count the chain and see if it's in the right position. I'm wondering if the timing has been advanced, either that or I didn't align the crank properly but I'm pretty sure it's right
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379015210.441256.jpg
In other news who ever said old people can't have fun
I seen a load of old biddys getting ready to race
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379015319.524878.jpg
My mate shouted out look there's David courtyard lol he never was very good with names gave me a chuckle anyway
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Re: Misfire when cold, fine once up to temperature

Post by Vaughn »

I don't believe it, I've only ordered the wrong feeler guages, these start at 0.203 and go up to 0.660 so they are nowhere near any good. I'll order another set
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Re: Misfire when cold, fine once up to temperature

Post by banner001 »

Vaughn wrote:I don't believe it, I've only ordered the wrong feeler guages, these start at 0.203 and go up to 0.660 so they are nowhere near any good. I'll order another set
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Re: Misfire when cold, fine once up to temperature

Post by Vaughn »

Hahaha that's funny. Gonna have to use my snap on feelers but some of the thinner ones have snapped off so hopefully I'll be able to get around it.
My boss came up to me this morning and said I need you to work Saturday, ha good luck with that I'm spending the day in the garage
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