Restarting Problem

[Cloud Wolf]

Ok, here goes. the bike runs and ride very very nicely. The problems i am having are firstly, that the temp gauge goes up to about half way, not sure if this is normal or not, also hot weather and all cant help. Secondly, when i turn the bike off after a run out it makes loud bubbling noises (liquid) obviouslythis could be connected to temp although not sure. Thirdly when i go to restart the bike it wont. And about 20 mins from trying to restart initially, it will come to life. This is even after being at school all day it will still take about 20mins to retsart from the initial try and consequent tries. When it wont restart the electrics all work (put a new battery in a week or so ago). Now this happened to me a couple of nights ago and got the RAC out (who are great btw) and the guy arrived and by the time they got there the bike would start. But we ripped the tank and airbox off and he immediatly saw something i ha overlooked, that the ignition coils weren't earthed properly, some arsehole had fucking cable tied em on. So he said either the coils sending intermitant signals back to the CDI whilst riding and then not allowing me to restart the bike before resetting itself/(cooling circuits down). Or its the CDI in general, or its the carbs being full of crap. Well i know the carbs are clean, and i re-earthed the coils yesterday morning which was a bitch to do as there was nothing to screw the bolts into the frame with. So had to some improv with some handy nut and washer magic. just wondering whether anyone has come accross any of these problems ( they may be relating im not sure) in any bike and can advise me on what to do. Will be taking it to the garage unless i can do it myself but am a student (not in uni so no grant to waste on bikes either) and short on cash.
premature thanks to all.Olly

[rover220]

half way on the gauge is fine, dont worry about the gurgling either imo, its just the coolant settling.

[Cloud Wolf]

Thanks rover, thats 2 sorted, just need to find out whats going on with the non restarting problem.... Anyone got any ideas? I really dont wanna have to pay somone like £100 to tell me to replace the CDI or something annoying lol

[zimm]

the coils arent earthed, the RAC bloke is incorrect, OE fitment they screw into brass threads inserted into rubber bungs that pop into the frame, (like the ones that hold your screen on) no circuit to earth involved, cable tying is common as the original bungs/threads get shafted over time. It's not pretty and its a bit of a bodge, but its not causing your problem. Nor is your CDI, they either work or they dont.

does the fan come on ? (im guessing not)*

to summarise,

gets hot
gurgles when switched off
wont restart

2 possibilities :

1) its running WAY rich on the pilot jets, so you cant start it on the button when its hot (you say you know the carbs are clean.. how many turns out did you set the idle mix to ?)

or (and my money is on)

2) head-gasket.

*because its not actually hot enough to switch the fan on, but the combustion gases from the engine are pressurising the coolant and causing the the overflow/expansion tank to fill, which is then gurgling as the coolant is drawn back into the radiator once its switched off. The inability to restart is the coolant thats got into the combustion chamber preventing sparks from happening till the plugs have dried out.

i hate zxr headgaskets, only bloody engine ive ever known that will run sweet as a nut with a blown head-gasket.. except for doing all of the above.. like the H1 i just bought .. garf.

[Cloud Wolf]

Ok not sounding good so far, how do i check for sure if its the head gasket? Or can a garage check easily?

[RedexRobB]

A garage can check for you, they will more than likely do a compression test, which if you spend a few quid on gauges you can do it yourself.

[Cloud Wolf]

Ok, will get it tested straight after school hopefully, havent got the time to go buy the kit tbh Rob, If it is the dreaded head gasket, how much will a new one cost, and how much will it cost to get fitted or could i do it myself? thanks for advice so far

[RedexRobB]

A new head gasket i think is about 20 quid. If you get a shop to do it your looking at least a whole days work as they will drop the engine out, id say about 200 quid for a shop to do it.

If you have worked on engines before its easy enough to do it yourself with the help of the manual. Unfortunately we havent got a writeup yet of how to do it.

[zimm]

head gasket is as rob says under 20 quid, but the base gasket between the block and the barrel ought to be changed at the same time, and maybe the camchain as... well.., you just might aswell while the engine is out.

none of the parts are expensive, its just the labour charge thats a killer if a garage are doing it (and the fact that there's no guarantee that the bike is put back together quite right either, ive seen some "just serviced/repaired" bikes in a state, both from backstreet places and main dealers.

it COULD just be that you have the idle mix set far too rich... will it start and idle from cold (on a cold day, not at present) without choke ? do you recall how many turns out you set the idle mix screws ?

is your bike stock/modified?

is your airfilter clean/gummed up ? again stock or aftermarket ?

does your fuel pump tick happily ?

is your fuel filter full of crap ?

for what its worth, this is what i did (im having pretty much exactly the same symptoms with mine), checked over all the simple things, to make sure its not any of them, topped it up with water. Went out and rode around for 15 minutes NEVER exceeding 7000 rpm .. bike behaved impeccably

stop, have a fag, get back on, NAIL IT, within 3 minutes of being ragged the temp crept up to 2/3rds and the the gurgling/pissing itself returned.

def head gasket.

read through chapter 4 of both the H and L manuals, will give you a fair idea of what to do to sort it yourself if it is it.

[Cloud Wolf]

In reply to your questions zimm, everything else is fine, runs really nicely until i turn it off, as soon as i do i hear a loud gugrling noise which i take to be exhaust gases being forced into the cooling system and then trying to reposition themselves or whatever when i turn it off? Wheres the best place to buy a head gasket, base gasket and cam chain from? and whats a good price for the other two, head gasket being aroun £20 or so. Also would a goog garage be able to do all 3 in one day for a days pay? say the £200?

[RedexRobB]

im guessing the base gasket is about as much as the head gasket, and the cam chain too actually.

All 3 of those you could be looking upto 400 i think.

[zimm]

swapping camchain/base gasket is not really any more work than doing the HG on its own, as if you aren't fitting new ones the old ones come off and go back on anyway... almost

ive just ordered a HG for mine £11 something from cradely kawasaki.

you could drop the engine out yourself, then get a mechanic to do the head-gasket, then put it back in yourself.. should reduce your bill consisderably. I did this the first time i needed one done, cost me parts + £100 + 1 taxi + £5 to a student who was walking past just as i needed 3 hands to put it back in.

[masterofinsanity]

seems a lot of talk of head gaskets recently, how many are getting the head skimmed?

[Gemini]

these are cool bits of kit to test for HGF

http://www.uktools.com/product_info.php ... s_id=12508

the liquid turns from blue to green/yellow if exhaust gases found in coolant

gem

[RedexRobB]

I think you would only need to get the head skimmed if it overheats and cooks something else?