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Car Vs. Bike

We have a resident rant and raver here at ZXRworld, come and say hello to Jamz.Wanna join him? got something to get off your chest? let it all out................
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Jamz
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Car Vs. Bike

Post by Jamz » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:57 am

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I always heard that although bikes will slaughter cars accelerating in a straight line, in the corners and on the brakes is a cars domain.

Your average 190 section superbike has a contact patch around the size of the palm of your hand to put close to 1000hp per tonne through. For a start you won’t get many cars these days with tyres less than 190 wide – and of course they have two or even four driver wheels to get their power onto the asphalt.

Plus when hard on the power the car won’t be trying to flip itself over backwards, so you’d think a decent car would be able to whupp a bike from a standstill.

Unfortunately bikes are a Hell of a lot lighter, us bikers are able to get our beer bellies weighted over the front end, and even a bad start will see 60mph in around 3 seconds. Most car drivers don’t understand this when they see us “Shooting off from the lights like a drag race!!” – the chances are we’re taking it easy but your car does 60 in more like TEN seconds. Think about it.

To quote myself whilst explaining how fast bikes accelerate: You know how you walk at, say, 4mph? And you sort of take that very first step and are already at maximum walking speed? That’s like how a sportsbike hits 30mph. I could pull out into traffic between two cars (leaving your obligatory 2 second gap, of course) and be up to speed without anyone having to brake to avoid me.

If you haven’t ridden a fast bike you can’t even comprehend it. It’s a blessing. It’s silly. It’s far too fast for the roads. And to even begin to think that a lot of cars don’t have a rev counter?! WTF? I have no idea what the Fiat revs to, but I can only guess that it’s less than my ZX9R’s 12,500rpm? And the Fiat certainly doesn’t do over 80mph in first gear…

Now, as any of my regular readers will know, after 10 years of riding sportsbikes I took and passed my car driving license a few months back.

OK, so I’ve only got some skinny-tyred Fiat Uno, but it’s weird. I still find myself driving sometimes and think “What the f***?? What the Hell am I doing in a CAR??? How did this happen?”.

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This is often followed by muttering about “Monkey drive car! Oo-ooh OOKA OHH!!!”.

I have to recalibrate my whole brain to deal with the road speed differences. The car is like being in one of those nightmares where you’re trying to run but can’t go fast. Everything happens in verrrrrrryy slowwwww motionnnnnn….

And I’ve done a skid control course, tried to push the car, and fully intend of getting a racecar on a track ASAP.

Other than pulling out on islands and at junctions which require about five times the space of a bike in laziest mode, the thing that’s getting me is the corner speed.

Four tyres and loads of grip, and I’ve always just assumed cars are faster in corners… but that just isn’t the case!

In the Uno I’ve tried the Redditch Cloverleaf a few times and the ‘safe’ speed is about HALF what it is on a bike I was horrified the first time as I drove into the first corner at a very conservative speed and still felt I had to brake. And what a weird viewpoint it is compared to having your head banked over all the way to the left about 18 inches from the tarmac!

I’m still to drive a high performance car, but I just can’t see it pushing my limits like the bike does? It’s too easy!

And riding a bike at 190mph is possible, and feels ‘OK’. To be doing 120+ ina huge metal box of a car, with all those forces involved if you do come a cropper??? Terrifying.

I think if I’d done this the other way around (i.e. had a car for 10 years and THEN a sportsbike), I’d just be absolutely terrified of the bike every time I threw my leg over it.

They’re an awesome vehicle to be privileged to ride – and I mean that ‘awesome’ in the truest and most lost meaning of that word.

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Who needs tyres when you've got knees!! :twisted:

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Re: Car Vs. Bike

Post by CaNsA » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:43 am



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Re: Car Vs. Bike

Post by banzay » Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:20 am




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Re: Car Vs. Bike

Post by gavinfdavies » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:44 pm

too true. I had a lad chatting to me about how he was going to spend thousands tuning is pug 206 tdi, aiming for 180bhp. After all that, i pointed out my vehicle did 0-60 in about 4 seconds without trying, topped out at 140, but could reach a ton in less than 10. did 45mpg, cost £1400 to buy, £35 to tax, and £200 tpft on my second year. When he'd picked his chin off the floor, i pointed out it was my zxr400. Maybe i've planted the seed of enlightenment in the lads mind.

And what about top gear last week?

£13k superbike vs £150k supercar. The bike nearly won, and was faster than any other car. What they didn't like to point out was a) the car was no more practical than the bike in this case and b) the car was using a siamesed bike engine!

So really it was bike vs two bikes!

What i'd like to see is a real world challenge...

give two blokes in their early 20s £5000. The have to buy with that, a vehicle, fully comp insurance, tax, fuel for 5,000 miles, new tyres, and all appropriated clothing. Then do a jouney across london then up to say donnington, followed by a track day.

One guy would buy a bike, the other a car. This would show a) how much cheaper a bike is b) how much cheaper to run c) how much faster on in urban and motorway environments and d) how much more performance you get for your money.

Any why is it when people point out how dangerous bikes are, they never listen when you point out how much cheaper our insurance is, nor that in the absence of trees, walls, and lorries, bikers have a good chance of walking away from a 100mph+ accident. How many car drivers would?


I do 700 miles a week in all weathers including snow, that's roughly 35,000 miles a year, and some weekend warrior biker has the nerve to get out of his Audi at work to tell me to I was riding far too fast in the wet (over taking at 50... fast eh?).

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Re: Car Vs. Bike

Post by Jamz » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:19 pm

That's a bloody good idea! It'd be interesting to see how much buying decent kit balances out the costs of both, too.

You should get on to Top Gear or Fifth Gear and try and sell that to them!


Who needs tyres when you've got knees!! :twisted:

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Re: Car Vs. Bike

Post by gavinfdavies » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:19 am

Ok, priced it all up...

Person; 30 year old male, NHS Manager, Home owner in surburia (my rented house actually!), 2 years NCB on both car and bike, passed both tests aged 19. no claim or accidents, one speeding ticket from one year ago (£60/3 points, no ban). Biker to carry pillion.

Vehicles; Both garaged, both used for commuting, both standard. Purchased today, insured for this week, Fully comp. Similar excesses.

Equipment; Vehicles must be taxed, insured, and fuelled for 5000 miles fast road. clothing suitable for track day (ACU Helmet, and leathers, boots, gloves for biker). All new.

The Choices;

Bike;
2010 Yamaha R1, 1/4 mile time 10.4s@135mph, cheapest bike for year. 180 claimed bhp, 300kg with rider, power to weight 600bhp per ton.

Car;
1999 BMW M3 3.2L Evo, 1.4 miles time 13.8s@104mph, 320 bhp, weight with driver 1550 kg, power to weight 206bhp per ton.

..................................Bike ................................ Car
MPG; .............................. 40 ................................. 23
Fuel cost; ...................... 740 ...............................1280
Tax; ............................70 .................................. 205
Helmet; ........................50.................................... 50
Leathers;...................... 350.................................... 0
Gloves;........................50 ...................................... 0
Boots;.......................100 ......................................0
Insurance; ................440......................................1300
Vehicle Cost; ...............7500 ................................. 6200

Total Spent; ............... £9300 .................................£9035

Just the lap times to compare...

THE RING;
BMW (20.600m) 8m22s (Sport Auto Magazine 1998)
Yamaha (19,100m)............7m28s (Performance Bikes magazine 2007)

Note; due to track restrictions for bikes, a direct comparison is hard, but I've found records for stock R1s from 1999 for the full track at less than 8 mins.
Either way the drug dealer in his M3 would be thrashed.

Now for another change...

Same challenge, same rules, half the cash!


I do 700 miles a week in all weathers including snow, that's roughly 35,000 miles a year, and some weekend warrior biker has the nerve to get out of his Audi at work to tell me to I was riding far too fast in the wet (over taking at 50... fast eh?).

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Re: Car Vs. Bike

Post by gavinfdavies » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:40 am

Bike;
2000 Yamaha R1 £2400. 150 claimed bhp, 300kg with rider, power to weight 500bhp per ton.

Car;
1990 Mitsubishi 3000GT 3.0 V6£1700, 220 bhp, weight with driver 1580 kg, power to weight 140bhp per ton.

..................................Bike ................................ Car
MPG; .............................. 40 ................................. 23
Fuel cost; ...................... 740 ...............................1280
Tax; ............................70 .................................. 205
Helmet; ........................50.................................... 50
Leathers;...................... 350.................................... 0
Gloves;........................50 ...................................... 0
Boots;.......................100 ......................................0
Insurance; ................280......................................1305
Vehicle Cost; ...............2400 ................................. 1000

Total Spent; ............... £4040 .................................£3840

Just the lap times to compare...

THE RING;
Mitsubishi GTO (20,800m)....8m36s (EVO Magazine - note, this is the twin turbo version with an extra 60bhp, and it's still slower!)
Yamaha (20,800m)............8m06s (BIKE Sweden 1998)



Conclusion;

The end results show that pound for pound, at £9000 and £4000 budgets, a typical superbike will always be a sports car.


I do 700 miles a week in all weathers including snow, that's roughly 35,000 miles a year, and some weekend warrior biker has the nerve to get out of his Audi at work to tell me to I was riding far too fast in the wet (over taking at 50... fast eh?).

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Re: Car Vs. Bike

Post by markzxr400l3 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:52 pm

yeah but cars have got roofs and its raining :pmsl pssst...i've also heard they've got some sort of system for keeping you warm too.

might buy me one before it snows.

also, what about the years of experience and skill a bike takes to actually go fast. i've ridden bikes for nigh on 23 years and owned a car for about 4 years total. I can get my wifes car to 99.9% (sometimes 100.1%) and I can only ride my GSXR to 85-90% coz i've taken other bikes to 101% and it hurts like feck.

i'm not sure what my argument is but its something along the lines of 'cars are simply better because any idiot can use them'.



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Re: Car Vs. Bike

Post by Jamz » Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:33 pm

markzxr400l3 wrote:yeah but cars have got roofs and its raining :pmsl pssst...i've also heard they've got some sort of system for keeping you warm too.

might buy me one before it snows.

also, what about the years of experience and skill a bike takes to actually go fast. i've ridden bikes for nigh on 23 years and owned a car for about 4 years total. I can get my wifes car to 99.9% (sometimes 100.1%) and I can only ride my GSXR to 85-90% coz i've taken other bikes to 101% and it hurts like feck.

i'm not sure what my argument is but its something along the lines of 'cars are simply better because any idiot can use them'.
I can relate to taht even more now...

I've don about 12 years on bikes and just over 2 in cars. I took my ARDS National B racing car license a few weeks ago, having never been on a track in a car before - and passed!

It wasn't 'easy' as such - I had a lot of work to do between the morning and afternoon test, but even though everyone else had more experience driving on trackdays etc, nobody at all overtook me through the day.

I went past several of them, and passed even more on my actual test laps (where they say you should be going at 80% - but I have no idea what 80% is having never driven on track before confuddled ). I even passed a Ferrari and Aston Martin driven by people on an Experience day - all in my little tiny Renault Megane I'd never even sat in before! :smt003

Next season racing in Formula Vee should really show up what level of skill I have, though...

Oh, and whereas a bike trackday KILLS you, I had absolutely no pain or anything from a day thraping various cars around the place. These four-wheelers are pansies! :smt016


Who needs tyres when you've got knees!! :twisted:

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Re: Car Vs. Bike

Post by markzxr400l3 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:42 pm

yeah, I wasnt prepared for the physical strain of even a 40 min blast on track at Oulton Park on my GSXR. The last few laps were slower because although I was getting the lines right I couldnt physically handle braking as hard as the bike could. Top day though.



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