Discriminatory Petrol 'Offers'

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Re: Discriminatory Petrol 'Offers'

Post by Caz »

Jamz wrote: So by saying bikers must remove helmets, they're saying there is some expectation that the biker has criminal intent, whereas the burka-wearer has no criminal intent.

And THAT is where the prejudice lies, because for whatever reason one person is allowed to cover their face and the other isn't.

Religion doesn't even come into it, and shouldn't, either.

I disagree with this completely. There is also the question of etiquette - something which seems to get forgotten.
It is expected that men should remove their hats upon entering a building to show respect. with regards to women wearing hats - as long as it isnt a mans style hat (baseball cap/wooly hat/etc) then it is perfectly acceptable for a woman NOT to remove their hat when indoors. Now, headscarves etc fall into this category. And this can be confirmed by the fact that one removes a baseball cap/hood when going into a church.

I am friends with several girls who choose to cover their faces. it causes them considerable distress to remove it. Britain is a multicultural country and therefore it is socially acceptable for people to dress in the manner that fulfills their religious beliefs. Accept it. I am happy to have such a diverse group of friends as a result of it
RobB wrote:Isnt this what i said to start with?
exactly, and I agree with this point and removing a helmet does not cause distress to the rider, inconvenience maybe but not distress.


as I said before, there is a perfectly good hook under your seat to secure your lid to if you dont want to put it down. Or fill up with your lid on and remove it before paying

stop drawing the analgy between religious headscarves and helmets - your clutching at straws.
Last edited by Caz on Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Discriminatory Petrol 'Offers'

Post by superman »

everyone has there own opinion on these matters dont they and its good that we can voice it in the first place. thats what makes this country great. but its the 21st century althoe you have the right to wear what you like etc. you have to draw the line somewhere. yea some muslim women prefer to wear the veil but its only choice not a must so they could remove if they wanted to. i mean they have to show there face sometime, whats on there passport. i dont know if anyone else thinks this but i feel some ppl have just jumped on the band waggon to cause friction.
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Re: Discriminatory Petrol 'Offers'

Post by deviant »

superman wrote: also one thing that did pss me off enough about what deviant wrote weather he knew what he did or didnt mean it.
maintain the belief that your world would be just a bit better if it wasn't for all these asians/blacks/muslims/whatever about the place, rather than taking responsibility for your own situation.
so there your assuming that its just white ppl who are racist.
No I'm not. I've never said that. The discussion we've been having has largely been centred on the antipathy of "white britons" towards "asian muslims". But at no point have I implied that this is the only form of racism that exists. Anyone is capable of racism, and it's still wrong whoever they are.

Please don't accuse me of saying things I haven't.
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Re: Discriminatory Petrol 'Offers'

Post by RedexRobB »

I do believe that Deviant was describing the belief of someone with that mentallity, such as Nick Griffin (wasnt it?) and wasnt a personal view.
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Re: Discriminatory Petrol 'Offers'

Post by deviant »

Jamz wrote: The knee-jerk reaction to this always comes down to religion, so people often neglect the reasons WHY we are asked to remove our helmets.

The long and short of it is that they want to see everyones face incase they participate in criminal behaviour.
This is an interesting point, because it comes down to a presumption of guilt before any criminal act is committed.

Firstly, I share with you the opinion that bikers shouldn't be forced to take off their lids before going into petrol stations. I hope I haven't given that impression anywhere in this thread.

The argument put forward for it is, I believe, protection against people robbing the shop/kiosk. It does nothing about drive off fuel theft, which ought to be dealt with by getting the vehicle numberplate off the CCTV. And the amount of fuel a biker could steal is trivial compared to a car driver in a baseball cap, who would be just as unidentifiable from CCTV.

Now I think it's just as likely that someone could park round the corner, walk onto the site wearing a balaclava, and be in the shop before anyone would notice them on CCTV or have time to do anything about it. Not arming the pumps unless bikers remove their helmets does nothing against the person who rides a bike onto the forecourt with the intent of carrying out a robbery - they aren't going to bother stopping to fill up first.

So for the reasons above, I don't think it's justified to force people to remove their lids. You may as well say that if we were all microchipped at birth then the government could track us all and prevent all crime.

However ultimately, all petrol stations are private property, they are inviting you onto that property, so they can place any conditions they like on you doing so. Just like your mate might ask you to take your shoes off before entering his house. You've just got to deal with it.


The second question is whether you should take your lid off whether you are forced to or not. For me, I almost always do (apart from the one time I mentioned earlier in the thread). Why? Because it costs me nothing, I think it's polite, and it probably (rightly or wrongly) reassures the cashier that I'm not going to pull a gun on them.

And this is where there's no similarity between bike helmets and muslim headscarves. People have said that covering your face is 'optional'. I think it would be more accurate to say that it is not universally believed in across Islam as a global faith. Some people will interpret it as unnecessary, others as a vital part of their faith. So at an individual level, it may not be 'optional'. In this case, being forced to remove it might be as distressing for them as you being forced to strip naked to go and pay for your fuel (conversely, you might have no problem with doing this, dependent on your personal belief system).

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Re: Discriminatory Petrol 'Offers'

Post by Jamz »

Caz - I see where you're coming from on the etiquette stakes, but it's flawed.

I mean, I'm all for the respect thing, and I wouldn't walk into a bank with my helmet on (or even the supermarket), but that's because I don't see the petrol forecourt as the same kind of building.

For a start, to be fair, EVERYONE should remove headgear of any kind when entering any building. But you have to bear in mind that this is ENGLISH ETTIQUETTE, and was around well before anyone was in this country with so much as a turban - let alone balaclavas, highwayman masks, motorcycle helmets or burka's.

Secondly, do these places that ask for helmets to be removed ask for the same if you pay at the forecourt window? They're behind bulletproof glass, and technically you're not IN the shop, so you could even argue that the traditional ettiquette doesn't apply?

As for the helmet clip... I have never used one and nor would I ever use one. My main reason is that it's on the chain side in a prime lube fling-off point. Nuh-uh, my Shoei doesn't live there! But a more practical argument would be that I'm pretty damn sure the helmet manufacturers and CE Approval would not advise you ever hang a helmet from the chinstrap. Upright on a clean, level surface is stated for helmet stowage.
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Re: Discriminatory Petrol 'Offers'

Post by rene »

can some one sumerise the last 2 pages as the responese got far to long for me to be bothered to read...thanks

Cheers,
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ps. can all responeses from now on be kept to under 4 lines, thanks
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Re: Discriminatory Petrol 'Offers'

Post by deviant »

lazy ass :smt019
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Re: Discriminatory Petrol 'Offers'

Post by superman »

just been for a blast to fill up with my new ARAI lid... its mint and the ventilation is fab anyway filled her up and kept lid on no problem... i wonder how dodgy you guys must look to be asked to remove it lol.... BTW its fekin freezin out an the roads are quite skiddy done the first drift on the 6,,, total accident an it must of looked good but i didnt for 1 second think i was gona loose it. :smt003
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Re: Discriminatory Petrol 'Offers'

Post by rene »

rolling burnouts up to 110 on a slippy dule is pritty fun, people look at me and wish they were me...thats what i think anyway
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Re: Discriminatory Petrol 'Offers'

Post by superman »

lol i know what you mean i get similar when im blastin past BMW M3's on the motorway at 130 althoe it looks like they are mouthing c**t to me i know they really mean wow i wish i was u ROFL :smt005
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