Counter steering

[kermit the frog]

ive never countersteered. i dont trust going left and turning right it doent make sense in my small mind however i have had my front tyre all the way over but not the rear.

my mate sez if i counter steer it will enable me to have a bigger contact patch with the road and enable me to get the rear tyre lent all the way over. ive only got like 3-4mm left to go.

i tried it the other day and i found that i was oversteering into the apex and having to let the bike sit up. ruinin my corner speed, line , consentration etc.

any tips? or just practice makes perfect and how much do i need to counter steer abviosly not full lock but ..... i dnt know n i dont want to bin my pride n joy tryin stuff i dnt trust or know wat im doin?

[zimm]

its a "pressure on the bars" thing rather than a "turn the bars" thing, you are turning faster than you were because you are turning the bike harder .. try less.

and btw, you've always counter-steered, its the only thing that works above ~10mph, just normally, you lean, and the bike does the rest, what you've changed by "trying" is just that you've taken control of what happens naturally.

If you are getting to the edge of the front tyre, leaning further wont achieve anything except rolling off the edge of it, regardless of what the back is doing. Some makes of tyres are just like this, you dont always reach the edge of both front and back simultaneously.

[Ballsout Racing]

^^^^^

Exactly

The harder you push/pull - countersteer, the faster the bike will turn. It's not something that tends to be done mid corner unless you need to get the bike upright sharpish, it's to get the bike on it's side as fast as possible so you can go into the corner quicker. It will not make any difference to wear on the tyre, I've raced my zxr for a good few years and never got to the edge on the rear tyre, in fact IIRC, not on the front either, and yet have had the fairing decking out and the generator cover on the left side

[Jamz]

Slightly different advice from me on this:

First off, check your tyre pressures! If your front is low then that would explain why you're getting to the edges of the tyres.

Actually, it might help if you say what tyres you're running as well?

Aside from the pressure, that kind of wear on the front tyre might suggest you're going into the corners very fast, but as the rear is still far from the edge that suggests you're coming out slow.

I think on every bike I've ever owned I've reached the edges of the rear well before the front - and I'd put that down to my slow-in, fast-out approach to corners on the roads.

[deviant]

and btw, you've always counter-steered,

what he said. you've just started doing it deliberately rather than unconsciously.

[RedexRobB]

some tyres you simply wont run to the edge, ive got viper sports on my 7R, ive had my elbow down on that and still never run completely to the edge of the front.

[masterofinsanity]

RobB that's the best excuse i've heard yet i'm gonna use that one!

[zxr_oli]

Was running pretty much on the edge of my old 092's, now i am nowhere near the edge of my Metzler M3's

Just find an empty space, eg. a car park / industrial site when closed. Ride along at say 30-40mph and just experiment to see what happens when you turn the bars (just a little though ).

[zxr_oli]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8IdTq3_3WI
Skip the 1st couple of mins.

[kermit the frog]

cheers for the help n the vid

im running BT020's fairly new aswell and they are always at the correct pressures as told by bridgestone, 36front - 42rear.

also i am probs running into corners quicker cuz im on retsricted zxr so i havnt got the pull to get out the corners, however woulnt both tyres lean at the same angle no matter whether im goin into or out of the corner?

with countersteering does that mean i can enter corners quicker or no quicker??? or does it allow braking all the way to the apex? or does it allow rear wheele sliding- would love to be able to do that.

actually on the subject of rear wheele sliding, does the zxr have a sliper clutch, iv heard it has a very basic one.
cheers. kermit.

[jake]

thats quite high on the pressures init? i presume thats cold pressure too?

i run mine at 30.5 front, 27.5 rear cold.
even with wets i only go 34 front, 32 rear.
that rear tyre must be a bit on the high side ( a possilbility!) surely?

[Ballsout Racing]

also i am probs running into corners quicker cuz im on retsricted zxr so i havnt got the pull to get out the corners, however woulnt both tyres lean at the same angle no matter whether im goin into or out of the corner?

Errmm, yes and no, think about what happens with weight distribution, if you're off the power and trailing the brake into the corner, the front suspension will be loaded and more weight on the front and less on the rear, and visa versa as you're getting on the power out of the corner, so whilst the angle 'I think' will be the same, the weight on the tyres will distort them giving you the wear closer to the edges. If that's what you were wanting to know

with countersteering does that mean i can enter corners quicker or no quicker??? or does it allow braking all the way to the apex? or does it allow rear wheele sliding- would love to be able to do that.

The speed that you carry in a corner depends on all sorts of things, but, the faster you are going in a corner, the more lean angle you will be carrying,(given that everything else is the same) so the quicker you can get to that lean angle, the quicker you can enter the corner. I hope that makes sense. In fact what you described :

i tried it the other day and i found that i was oversteering into the apex and having to let the bike sit up. ruinin my corner speed, line , consentration etc.

is telling me that you have actually succeeded in getting the bike on it's side quicker, but, you were not going fast enough to carry the correct line. If you were going faster you would not have got to the appex too early. Does that make sense?

I would thoroughly recommend a book by Keith Code called "Twist of the Wrist". He started up the California Superbike School and was avery successful racer. It describes a hell of a lot about how a bike works and how to ride it. Then get yourself on a track day, but be careful of 'track day instructors', some are just there for tracktime, do some research on proper instructors, you'll learn an awful lot that will also make you a better/faster/safer road rider. If you want to go that route, I can point you to some racers that instruct on track days.

Finally, I'm finding difficult to describe what I think you need/want to know so I hope I've made sense.

Good luck, ride safe

[Ballsout Racing]

thats quite high on the pressures init? i presume thats cold pressure too?

i run mine at 30.5 front, 27.5 rear cold.
even with wets i only go 34 front, 32 rear.
that rear tyre must be a bit on the high side ( a possilbility!) surely?

Track pressures are a lot lower than when riding on the road though Jake

[Jamz]

thats quite high on the pressures init? i presume thats cold pressure too?

i run mine at 30.5 front, 27.5 rear cold.
even with wets i only go 34 front, 32 rear.
that rear tyre must be a bit on the high side ( a possilbility!) surely?

Track pressures are a lot lower than when riding on the road though Jake

Yeah, the 36/42 combo is pretty much a 'safe' standard for road tyres. Best not to mess with it unless you know what you're doing, but that could make an interesting thread...

Give me a few minutes...

[jake]

fair enuffs! 42 on the back just sounds like concrette to me tho!