ZXR400H "Electrically Dead"

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General.Eric
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ZXR400H "Electrically Dead"

Post by General.Eric » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:11 am

Hi guys,

Looking for some ideas or input from anyone that might know more than me. What tends to be common problems, etc:

Bike History:
Recently bought a ZXR400H '89 (registered in '90) to run around whist I rebuilt the brakes on my GSXR (which subsequently turned into a nut & bolt rebuild). Great fun, I love it.

It was a good deal but a bit of a shitter - Lovely new respray Kwak green and gold fleck paint job obviously hiding a similarly colourful past! But there were receipts for an engine rebuild and mechanically it hasn't missed a beat. The wiring is a rats nest though, connectors that would be more at home in a dry wall and all kinds of things plumbed in I don't even know what they do.

Problem Description:
Anyway it was actually running great to my suprise until it took a dive off the side stand in the gales a few weeks ago, landing on its left hand side (with an impact that displaced the starter relay solenoid). I put another 200 miles on it just fine but then started having trouble - One morning I turned the key and no dash lights, no head lights, no click on the relay soleniod, no horn. I jiggled the key, off to on to off again and the dash came up & it started off the button.

I rode to my destination but as soon as I rolled to a stop it cut out, the dash died & it wouldn't start again. So I did a day's work and came back and when I stuck the key in the dash did light up but there wasn't enough power in the battery to get it to turn over. After a while I got it bump started but whilst running it was odd because the Running lights worked & the Full Beam worked, but the main headlights did not?! Any how after that journey I parked it, covered it and next time I went to it, again - no dash lights.

Remedial work so far:
1.Obvious first port of call was the battery - it isn't in great shape and a replacement is on its way, but it went on a deep cycle & should have enough charge to at least power the dash lights.
2.Fuses - all checked, no blown fuses
3.Starter Relay - I found the connector block (that holds the main fuse & pins) pretty bust up (any idea where I can get a new one?) and the white cable had been torn from the block and there was significant white corrosion here. So I thought BANG, thats got to be it, nice easy fix! So I recrimped and soldered a new spade connector and gave it all a good clean. The connector block is ugly but I've tested that there is a solid connection on all pins. But still to my great annoyance there is no life at all on the dash when ignition set to RUN or running lights when ignition set to PARK.
4.Kick it
5.Chain smoke cigarettes and swear at it.

I guess my next logical step is the ignition switch & continuity on the white cable that I THINK runs from the + terminal of the Main fuse to the ignition switch. Trouble is the only wiring diagram I can find is for a different, later model - I hope it hasn't changed too much.

If I get continuity there whats the next place to go? I guess it could be a bad ground too? but where is the ground?

Has anyone got any other ideas? Are there any other components that might have burnt out that could cause it.
The loom is such a bloody mess I'm not relishing the idea of tracing it all down (I'm not great with electrics) or paying for the hours it would take if I took it to the shop. I'm finding myself a bit confused because it seems like 2 problems. Firstly the initially intermittent problem of no electrical power at all, secondly the apparent low cranking amps, though I guess whatever caused 1 probably interferes with the charging system too...

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Miles
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Re: ZXR400H "Electrically Dead"

Post by Miles » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:58 am

Hate electrical problems, could any of a number of things.

Having never worked on an H model I can only give advice based on the L but checking your grounding is a good step. There should be a Earth on the engine, top of the crankcase I would image, and one on the frame. Without an earth/negative electricy cannot 'flow'

Have you looked at the kwak manuals on zxrworld.co.uk. Has all the wiring diagrams in them.

As for connectors the company kojaycat.co.uk carry loads and loads of connectors. Got a lot for my L off them and change most of my loom for new.

Failing that it sounds like a loose connection so out with the multimeter and start at the battery positive and follow the loom round

General.Eric
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Re: ZXR400H "Electrically Dead"

Post by General.Eric » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:24 pm

Thanks Miles,

Cheers for that, can't believe I didn't spot the downloads section on the web page!
Yeah I've done a fair bit of prodding so far with the multimeter, weather forecast hasn't held out for long enough to motivate me to get the thing stripped down properly and have a proper go at it (No garage).

I'm praying it is just the ground!

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Miles
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Re: ZXR400H "Electrically Dead"

Post by Miles » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:47 pm

Lol you'd be surprised how many people don't know there's a ton of information on the website it's self

Well from memory there's only 2/3 earths on the bike. So if you take then off and using abit of wet & dry to clean up the connectors and the area where they bolt to then you should get a much better earth.

Also try seeing if the continuity between the negative terminal and the earths

bendog66
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Re: ZXR400H "Electrically Dead"

Post by bendog66 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:48 pm

Check all the wires attached to the battery too, I've had it before when the negative was loose

General.Eric
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Re: ZXR400H "Electrically Dead"

Post by General.Eric » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:14 am

Cheers guys. I have checked the obvious around the back of the bike:

Battery, Starter Relay Solenoid, Main Fuse & all the connections there-in.
I'm going to have the fairings and such off around the front later and check the continuity to the ignition switch and the ground.
Fingers crossed - missing too many nice days in the sunshine right now.

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zimm
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Re: ZXR400H "Electrically Dead"

Post by zimm » Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:07 pm

check the connector blocks under the trim piece on the left hand side of the bike up between the frame and fairing.

all the wires for the ignition switch run through there and its a common place for corroded/loose/crap connections .. may also have taken a battering when it fell over

HTH
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General.Eric
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Re: ZXR400H "Electrically Dead"

Post by General.Eric » Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:17 pm

Thanks Zimm

There was a bunch of corrosion on the large terminals which I cleared up, also it did take a battering in the fall. The White cable was pulled from its connector - which I already rectified. I checked continuity from there up to the ignition switch which checked out OK.

I've since pulled the tank off and checked the ground - also seems fine.
Could the CDI be at fault?

I've no ideas left so I think I'll begrudgingly admit defeat and have the shop take a look at it.

posexec
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Re: ZXR400H "Electrically Dead"

Post by posexec » Sat Apr 23, 2016 3:14 pm

Well I'm sure it's little consolation to you but I have the same symptoms on my 2000 L9.

Bike started on the money for 9 months then it started to have an intermittent starting problem. I got dash lights and on some occasions it would fire up then others it just did nothing when I thumbed the starter. No clicks, no noise just nothing. Checked side stand, tried with clutch in/out, flicked kill-switch back and forth and usually I could get it started eventually or if not I could bump it.

Figured initially that it was a duff contact in the right hand grip starter button as I had recently had to replace the right hand control with a second hand spare due to excessive play in the whole assembly. Bought yet another set and fitted but problem still persisted. As it was chucking it down with rain at that point I consigned the bike to the shed and planned to take a look next weekend.

Fast forward to next weekend. Wheel out bike to discover I had left the key in the ignition (insert careless idiot comment here). Turned on ignition and no lights whatsoever from dash......Ok, so maybe I had inadvertently left the ignition on and it had drained battery. Bit of a stretch as the ignition was actually off despite keys being in place.

Charged battery to be sure. Still nothing.
Checked main 30a fuse and all fuses in fusebox. All ok.
Original battery age was unknown so new Yuasa bought to cover the obvious first. Still dead.
Bought new solenoid and main fuse unit and fitted. Still dead.
Tested continuity to ignition at cable plug under tank. Connection good.
Tested continuity for ignition back through loom to I assume fuse box. Connection good.
Tested continuity for kill switch at cable plug under tank. Connection good.
Checked earthing point on frame under rear part of tank. Good.
Couldn't see any obvious breaks, crimps or failures in the rats nest of cables running under the tank. Have read in other posts to look out for "white wire" that it main culprit but nothing stands out when I look.

So, I'm at the same stumped point you are. How the heck can I not even get dash lights.....

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zimm
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Re: ZXR400H "Electrically Dead"

Post by zimm » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:46 pm

General.Eric wrote:Thanks Zimm

There was a bunch of corrosion on the large terminals which I cleared up, also it did take a battering in the fall. The White cable was pulled from its connector - which I already rectified. I checked continuity from there up to the ignition switch which checked out OK.

I've since pulled the tank off and checked the ground - also seems fine.
Could the CDI be at fault?

I've no ideas left so I think I'll begrudgingly admit defeat and have the shop take a look at it.

gotta love electrics..

could be the ignition switch itself.. or the connection blocks where everything plugs into the fuse box

where are you based ? ive a few H1 looms and bits we could try on it
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zimm
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Re: ZXR400H "Electrically Dead"

Post by zimm » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:51 pm

posexec wrote:some stuff
>>snip<<
So, I'm at the same stumped point you are. How the heck can I not even get dash lights.....
id suspect the ignition switch itself in your case..
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posexec
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Re: ZXR400H "Electrically Dead"

Post by posexec » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:33 am

Well I thought the same but continuity is there for the ignition. I can verify that current gets through when ignition switched on and when it's switched off the current dies on the voltmeter so that would indicate that's all good.

No sense whatsover.....

Only thing left for me to do is start trying to work through the rats nest of cables and verify continuity throughout. Marvellous how they seem to be one colour leaving front under tank plugs and different colours (seemingly) end up at fuse and battery end.

Bloody hate electrics. Should be simple. LOL.

BTW, I'm in Worthing, West Sussex down on South Coast.

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