Problems with my H1.... please help!!

Moderator: Moderators

jimmy-newzxr
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:26 pm

Problems with my H1.... please help!!

Post by jimmy-newzxr »

Hi everyone, :smt006

just bought my H1 yesterday it was £700 has 21,000 miles and i think it was a reasonably fair price for the condition. Is going to be a bit of a project so today i set about giving it a once over. Right the problem... well first thing the choke cable is snapped so cold starting is quite an art form pulling on the cable, once it is slightly warm it ticks away fine.. but as soon as you open the throttle fully the engine dies and cuts out. but if you pull the choke cable it revs freely up to 8,000 rpm or so.... So i thought it might be the carbs bunged up but to my suprise after stripping it down they looked immaculate inside, i didnt take the jets out but there was no crap in there at all???? I also noticed though that there was a bodged wire between the two ignition coils so i took it off because it didnt look like it was meant to be there??? Ok so i put the bike back together and started again, this time it idled fine so left it running for 10-15 mins and as the engine heated up (to about 75% on the gauge) the idle speed increased to around 3-4000 rpm and when i opened the throttle open wide the bike revved fine, then if i did it again it would stall....very weird... :smt017 Can anyone help with this coz its baffled me. Dont know if its fuel/air/ignition but i cleaned the air filter and replaced the fuel filter also.

Any help would be greatly appreciated... biggrin

JImmy
User avatar
jake
zxr400 oc member
zxr400 oc member
Posts: 1016
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:03 pm
My Bike: tomos moped
Location: wirral

Re: Problems with my H1.... please help!!

Post by jake »

dunno what that wire was, but i dont think you normally have one there. it sounds like its running a bit rich, maybee try leaning it up a bit on the corrector screws (screw em in clockwise).
just make sure they are all set the same.
cargo
zxr400 oc member
zxr400 oc member
Posts: 3341
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:33 am
My Bike: tomos moped
Location: Carrickfergus Northern Ireland

Re: Problems with my H1.... please help!!

Post by cargo »

Do NOT touch the corrector screws..................................................in 31 years of owning and riding motorcycles I've never known there to be any problem that can be repaired by adjusting the adjuster screws.


I have a question for you and be honest....................BEFORE you gave your bike "the once over" how was it running then ?
jimmy-newzxr
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:26 pm

Re: Problems with my H1.... please help!!

Post by jimmy-newzxr »

When i first got the bike it was exactly the same no difference, it started fine cold but once you opened the throttle it started to die off.. i only had a propper chance to run it up hot yesterday and it doesnt pverheat which is a relief but the idle does increase when it gets warmer. Just another thing forgot to add took the plugs out and they were pretty black got a new set ordered so will try that, spark wasnt great though and there was loads of grease crap on the ht lead inside??

cheers
rover220
zxr400 oc member
zxr400 oc member
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:24 pm
My Bike: zx7r p6
Location: Stafford

Re: Problems with my H1.... please help!!

Post by rover220 »

these foul up plugs easily, does sound like its overfuelling though, does it pop and bang alot or at all for that matter?
Image
cargo
zxr400 oc member
zxr400 oc member
Posts: 3341
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:33 am
My Bike: tomos moped
Location: Carrickfergus Northern Ireland

Re: Problems with my H1.... please help!!

Post by cargo »

Given that the plugs are black and the strange increase in revs..............I'd take a guess at maybe the float heights need resetting.........................or..............

The bike is a H so therefore it's getting on for 20 years old ?
So I'd wonder are the little o rings that seal/seat the needle valve seats are perished and allowing fuel to by pass the needle valves

item 92055A on this page

http://www.zxrworld.co.uk/images/hmicro ... ternal.gif

No promises that this is the problem just my best guess given whats been said
User avatar
RedexRobB
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7212
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 7:37 pm
My Bike: ZXR400L3
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk

Re: Problems with my H1.... please help!!

Post by RedexRobB »

What about the inlet rubbers cargo? Split maybe?
cargo
zxr400 oc member
zxr400 oc member
Posts: 3341
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:33 am
My Bike: tomos moped
Location: Carrickfergus Northern Ireland

Re: Problems with my H1.... please help!!

Post by cargo »

RedexRobB wrote:What about the inlet rubbers cargo? Split maybe?
The early model inlet rubbers are.........................not good
they tend to split but that will let air in that would make the bike run lean this seems like it's running rich ?

To be honest on a bike this age it could be all sorts of things...................one of my race bikes last year ran really badly ws had to start and even harder to restart when warm turned out it ws the wires from the pick up were broken/damages ny heat and time spent in hot oil.

I think with a bike this old all sorts of idiots could have be fiddling with it. I have to wonder why our friend bought a bike that was running so badly.
User avatar
RedexRobB
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7212
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 7:37 pm
My Bike: ZXR400L3
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk

Re: Problems with my H1.... please help!!

Post by RedexRobB »

Well he says the revs rise on thier own as its warming up, what im wondering is the rubbers are also warming up and makin it run lean? Yet it revs freely without stalling if the choke is on. Can too much air cause it to stall?
User avatar
jake
zxr400 oc member
zxr400 oc member
Posts: 1016
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:03 pm
My Bike: tomos moped
Location: wirral

Re: Problems with my H1.... please help!!

Post by jake »

cargo wrote:Do NOT touch the corrector screws..................................................in 31 years of owning and riding motorcycles I've never known there to be any problem that can be repaired by adjusting the adjuster screws.


I have a question for you and be honest....................BEFORE you gave your bike "the once over" how was it running then ?

How do you sort the idle out if the revs are hanging? do you go up on yr pilots when needed? ive always just richenend it up rather than buy bigger pilots, is this bad? :smt017
cargo
zxr400 oc member
zxr400 oc member
Posts: 3341
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:33 am
My Bike: tomos moped
Location: Carrickfergus Northern Ireland

Re: Problems with my H1.... please help!!

Post by cargo »

Unless this bike is tuned,running with a race can/exhaust or modifies airbox there is no reason to change any setting in the carbs from standard..................why would you ???

Even then the air corrector or pilot screw would hardly need to be moved.

By using the air corrector screw to adjust the idle speed you are causing a change in fuel air ratio and there by raising the idle
Why not just adjust the idle with the screw desgined to adjust the idle ?

Seems to me that your creating more problems than your curing.

The simple answer is nearly always the right one....looking for ever more difficult to do solutions only creates ever more complex problems
jimmy-newzxr
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:26 pm

Re: Problems with my H1.... please help!!

Post by jimmy-newzxr »

Well i bought the bike on ebay the guy said it runs fine, and when he dropped it off it did. To be honest maybe my mistake for not having a propper check over when first bought. But for the money i dont think i can complain too much yet!

Right spent all day on the bike, stripped back the carbs again cleaned the insides with carb clener. also soaked the air filter and dried. Stuck it all back. So i started the bike and when it was cold the idle was low, so i increased it with the adjuster to about 1500, after ten mins it started picking up again, so i knocked it down again (which i guess in effect is kinda like the choke) as mines snapped instead of using that i used the idle control adjuster. So engines running fine not lumpy quite smooth and if you leave for a min and rev it with the throttle will fly up to 8000 no bother if you try again it gets to about 3-4000 and stutters under idle for a couple of secs then goes back up.... :smt017 sometimes though it stalls. Now i kinda get the impression it might be fuel related, when it stutters the carbs sound like they flutter almost and then the engine dies off, there is a guy down the road who says he will have a look but to be honest would like to try myself as that was the whole piont of buying the bike. If it is the rubber seats as you mentioned earlier can i get a set of these andf replace?? is that a massive job, i know i will have to get the carbs set up by a prof. but is there anything else i can check??

Another stupid qiestion but my expansion tank is bone dry but how i do know how much coolant is in the radiator??

Thanks again for your help guys

Cheers
User avatar
RedexRobB
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 7212
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2002 7:37 pm
My Bike: ZXR400L3
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk

Re: Problems with my H1.... please help!!

Post by RedexRobB »

Not sure if you have come across them just yet, but we have the manuals on the main site

http://www.zxrworld.co.uk/zxr400/manual.html

These should help you with everything you need pretty much.

As for the radiator coolant level, you should find the radiator cap at the top right hand side of the radiator, it should be brim full, any lower and it needs topping up. As does the expansion bottle if its dry, there are upper and lower levels to tell you where the level should be. :smt002

Im starting to wonder if the fuel pump is on its way out? Theres enough fuel in the bowls to rev upto 8k but let it drop down and rev again, it cant keep up and almost dies. I think there is a test you can do to make sure its operating properly, so might be worth a try just to eliminate it.

page 29 and 30 of the pdf file http://www.zxrworld.co.uk/Manuals/H%20M ... r%2015.pdf

The carbs are probably fine, especially as it ticks over ok, and they may be clean because the previous owner has probably gone down the same route as you, hasnt worked and given up. You should be able to find the air screw setting around on the forum somewhere, memory tell me its 2.5 turns out from fully in, but im sure cargo will probably know for sure. So you wont need a professional, and there is a guide i have written on carb balancing if you have the tools and wanted to give it a try.

http://www.zxrworld.co.uk/zxr400/balancing.html

As for the inlet rubbers, check the simple stuff that wont cost you anything first, if you can get them cheap then i suppose you may as well do it.

hope that helps, and keep us posted.
jimmy-newzxr
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:26 pm

Re: Problems with my H1.... please help!!

Post by jimmy-newzxr »

Cheers for that mate will give the fuel pump a try my mate has decided to give me a hand too and he has a lot more experience than me so thats a relief. Forgot to add too things, first it does have a scorpion end can fitted dont know if this will affect it, also i checked the plugs again and did get a reasonably good spark so that looks ok on the ignition side of things. I was thinkin about the fuel tap maybe if thats gunged up but the fuel filter is see through and it always full of fuel so i guess that eliminates that. I am gonn amake it my personal mission to get this bike sorted!!! ha ha. biggrin
cargo
zxr400 oc member
zxr400 oc member
Posts: 3341
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:33 am
My Bike: tomos moped
Location: Carrickfergus Northern Ireland

Re: Problems with my H1.... please help!!

Post by cargo »

jimmy-newzxr wrote:Well i bought the bike on ebay the guy said it runs fine, and when he dropped it off it did. To be honest maybe my mistake for not having a propper check over when first bought. But for the money i dont think i can complain too much yet!

Right spent all day on the bike, stripped back the carbs again cleaned the insides with carb clener. also soaked the air filter and dried. Stuck it all back. So i started the bike and when it was cold the idle was low, so i increased it with the adjuster to about 1500, after ten mins it started picking up again, so i knocked it down again (which i guess in effect is kinda like the choke) as mines snapped instead of using that i used the idle control adjuster. So engines running fine not lumpy quite smooth and if you leave for a min and rev it with the throttle will fly up to 8000 no bother if you try again it gets to about 3-4000 and stutters under idle for a couple of secs then goes back up.... :smt017 sometimes though it stalls. Now i kinda get the impression it might be fuel related, when it stutters the carbs sound like they flutter almost and then the engine dies off, there is a guy down the road who says he will have a look but to be honest would like to try myself as that was the whole piont of buying the bike. If it is the rubber seats as you mentioned earlier can i get a set of these andf replace?? is that a massive job, i know i will have to get the carbs set up by a prof. but is there anything else i can check??

Another stupid qiestion but my expansion tank is bone dry but how i do know how much coolant is in the radiator??

Thanks again for your help guys

Cheers

OK I'm not being cheeky when I say this BUT
You say it was running fine when it was "dropped off" I assume then that the bike was ridden to your location by he previous owner..............it got there ok and was as you have said "fine".
All your problems seem to have occured after you gave it a "once over"
Therefore I must conclude that the problem you now have stems from something you have done..............?

Oh and this choke that is "snapped off" could it be that the choke is snapped off with the choke on ?
Using the idle adjuster as a choke for cold starting is silly because it won't do anything all it does is open the butterfly throttle valve a little you could achieve the same result just by turning the twistgrip.

Recent via this forum I help a guy with his ZXR............all he did was try and change his clutch cable but because he made a mistake he ended up with a broken camchain tensoner and a very noisy engine. He had no idea that he had made that mistake as was wanting to buy a new engine.......................his engine is fine now
So please double check and make sure you have EVERYTHING as it should be before you start playing around with jetting and pilot screws...................

I've just re read your posting you say you soaked the air filter...........what did you soak it in........? I've seen bikes run very rich ( your problem ?) because the air filter could not pass air due to being soaked in oil that was too heavy/thick.
Is theairfilter not a paper element in which case it does not need to be soaked in anything...........

My experience of ZXR400s is that they do not like having the air filter /air box being changed and it takes a dyno to set them up right after any modifications

You can run the fuel pump just by connecting it to a 12v source
Post Reply