oil cooler or no oil cooler

[Wookie]

Here is an example of a tuner that runs a succesful race shop that builds alot of succesful motors for the club I race with.

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forum ... p?t=325944

No condescending comments... just what they have figured out & why. No B.S.

[cargo]

One each please

[rmkd177]

Here is an example of a tuner that runs a succesful race shop that builds alot of succesful motors for the club I race with.

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forum ... p?t=325944

No condescending comments... just what they have figured out & why. No B.S.

Then i suggest you put your problems to him and let him come out with the solution
And being as you know me so well....NOT!...you havent the experience to pass comments on my character.
Tell too many people too much can and has been very costly to me in the past...using different cams from different models which you could pick up for peanuts a couple of years ago now demanded alot more money...
Using a hybred gearbox from 2 different standard models to get a perfect close ratio gearbox...suspension linkages...rear shocks..wheels ect ect.
Anyone who knows me well will know im always on the end of the phone for help and advice and i dont think a forum is the place(as ive said many times) to get into technical depth with problems..
My advice 'wookie' if you dont like what you read...dont read it.

[Wookie]

The only criteria you have in terms of judging people on a forum is what they write.

Some of your comments seem pretty condescending. I dont think anyone is out to steal all your hard earned trade secrets. Last time I checked there wasn't a ton of demand for ZXR400 tuning.............

How about if you dont like what you read dont make a snide comment. Rather than pollute the thread on oil coolers, pm me if you want to continue this. We can both speak more freely that way.

[cargo]

OK you've both made your point.

Enough

[chris bb]

I have too Agree Roger has always answered any question i have asked of him when a simply and polite phone call is made,
forums are the source of all evil and mistakes, its far better to speak to someone who's tried the lot and succeeded rather than being missled through other people' success stories...There is a point to this and im not arguing against or for either side.. Chris Bray

[Ewetea]

I recently had to go to site on company business, so I had a VW pool car for transport. I was very interested in the fact that not only did it have the usual water temperature gauge, but also a digital readout of the oil temperature.
The water gauge suddenly registered after five minutes of local driving, indicating that the water in the engine had reached sufficient temperature to open the thermostat and permit cooler water from the radiator to flow in and maintain a uniform temperature.
However, the digital oil temperature gauge did not register until I had been driving for 12 minutes, and then it started at 50degC. After 20minutes it had reached 90degC. When I reached the motorway and progressed at a faster pace it crept up to 105degC and stayed there.
These observations confirmed my opinion that the oil cooler on the ZXR is nothing but a fashion accessory as has been mentioned in other submissions on this subject. My brother-in-law worked for BP oil for 35 years, and he notes that the temperature influences the viscosity of the oil. If it is cold it is too thick to quickly reach the stressed parts (hence the reason for not applying too many revs until the unit has warmed up). If it is too hot then it becomes very thin and there is the danger of the lubricating film breaking down. The temperature of the oil at the crankshaft and pistons will be significantly higher than that in the sump. However, modern multi-grade oils are affected by temperature a lot less than the old straight SAE30 oils. They also often include a synthetic component which has the distinct advantage of being less prone to breakdown in high temperature conditions.
So, unless the bike is used for continuous high speed travel for more than an hour, it may even benefit from removing the cooler, since unlike the water system, there is no thermostat to bleed in the cooler liquid – the whole lot must be warmed up. I am also of the opinion that removal of the oil cooler will permit cool air to flow over the lower section of the engine, where the majority of the oil is contained. Since the engine is aluminium, that metal transfers heat very readily, and just the flow of air should be sufficient to maintain an optimum oil temperature (100degC in the sump is suggested). Racers operate their engines at very high revs, but for short periods of 20-25mins max, which is not enough to raise the oil temperature to dangerous levels. They also make frequent oil changes.
Finally, I was a little concerned that some owners had removed the cooler and applied a blanking plate. I assumed that some sort of connection was required to permit flow. However, when I looked at the flow diagram in the manual on this site (greatly appreciated whoever did it) it shows a by-pass hole linking the two sides. But it seems to be a small hole, to permit flow until the oil heats up. I shall bin my oil cooler, but will install a short pipe between the two connections to permit full flow.

[cargo]

I totally agree with you until the very end I'm not convinced a linking pipe is needed but having one will certainly do no harm.

I now run one of my bikes at a race meeting......................with no problems NO LEAKS and no change in running temp from normal.

One thing I do note from your post is the importance of properly warming up a race bike before a race. IMHO a race bike needs to be started and warmed then stopped for a while to allow the heat to disapate into the whole engine/gearbox/sump then restarted and warmed again before setting off................

[Alan P]

One thing I do note from your post is the importance of properly warming up a race bike before a race. IMHO a race bike needs to be started and warmed then stopped for a while to allow the heat to disapate into the whole engine/gearbox/sump then restarted and warmed again before setting off................

Good call Cargo, I do exactly the same for exactly the same reason.

I'm still in the 'thinking about it' stage of doing this, but having looked at the flow diagram and inspected my spare cases, I'll most definately be going for a link pipe.

[lucky77]

Al and Cargo, yep I also go through the laborious but important method of warming up the bike properly as my engine tuner told me to do so.....and if they built it they should know. I'm not sure that the VW pool car story adds any value to the race bike oil cooler/no oil cooler debate though - yes oil takes longer to heat up than water this is true and im sure we all know that, but if a race bike is warmed up properly before a race then the comment of "Racers operate their engines at very high revs, but for short periods of 20-25mins max, which is not enough to raise the oil temperature to dangerous levels" surely is redundant to a certain extent?

I suppose its all down to personal preference, and some tuners are having success without one, but mine (Dynotech) told me to run it.....there was some technical reason that i wont pretend to understand, but for me (and this is only my opinion not a right or wrong statement) after throwing a couple of grand at a motor, if my builder says to run the oil cooler I'm going to as its just not worth the risk what with me not having won the 17 million rollover on sat yet.
They also told me never to run em cold so make sure you tape up your huge rads at almost every circuit fellas......cold is baaaaaaad for zxr's! .......you can have that one for free.

[jake]

ive rid of mine now aswell. Same as Cargo, with the ally plates.
Ran fine at cadwell t'other week with no problems or any change to before.

[cargo]

I think I might have that engine out again shortly cos I've got another one to run in................so I'll have a look at the top end for anything strange going on.................

[noelb]

I had mine apart to replace the inlet valves after a "mishap" last year and nearly cried finding the last bearing journal on the inlet cam was fecked. More annoyingly, I have a very clear memory of the qualifying that I got out into by the skin of my teeth with a stone-cold engine. Theres no gentle way to warm up an engine on a track during a session methinks......

On the rad taping - is it not easier to just leave the thermo stat in - if you're taping the rad then the cooling system is well fit to cool it with the 'stat still in and there's going to be so little power lost I doubt is it could ever be measured.

Still debating whether to blank off or loop the pipes though - am going to do one or the other though - the cooler is a PITA and I'm not gonna lose an engine to a stone if I can avoid it. There's two chances of me seeing an oil light during a race I change my oil every 2nd or 3rd meeting and there is sometimes still colour in it (sillolene fully synth) so I don't think ZXRs are hard on their oil as such. Could be completely wrong though........

Noel B.

[cargo]

I assume your the Noel B I think you are ?

[noelb]

No - I only meet him every now and again! I'm down south. I bought a few bits from Billy McKinstry a few years ago and as soon as he heard my name he told me there was two of us! His bike is a sh*t load quicker than mine as well....................

Noel B(oyhan)