engine tuning

[superman]

hmm it may not prove to be cheaper overhall either in the long run either with all the bits or indeed to make it a modern equiv i mean i 2007 fireblade engine on its own is how much??? fun to think of but v impracticle

Caz

hondas are cool (go for ever), im takin a shine to a 2004 CBR6 RR looks nice rounded it down now to one of them or the equiv R6 which dont look as nice TBH

[rene]

you wouldent use a brand spanking new engine...i got offered a 2002 model engine (plus loom ect) for 700

so-

cheap bike 500
engine, loom, ecu reg ect 700
full 636 front end, 300 odd
new shock 400 for somthing nice

so im now at £1,800 with somthing thats going to give any blade a very very good run for its money (if not blow it out the water).

then if you want to take it to an extram stick in another 1k or so in and put her on a diet (recon you could knock 30kg off without much work). paint job, somthing like the R1/CBR swinger, you've got one very mean bike all for 2,800

or some dull as disk water blade



that ones up for 5,200...its not a hard choice for me...

[superman]

i doubt it would blow a new blade out the water mucker the 07 engine is gona be heaps better than the 02 engine, but it wont be as easy as you think im sure (or as cheap) there must be other bits that need changing then theres the time put in so 40 hours at 100 squid an hour = 4k normal mechanic rates, BUT i think you may have problems if you sold it cos wouldnt you need an engineers cert to say the frame is holding ie work overseen by an engineer. thats what i would want if buyin it... i would rather buy the new blade. less mess

[rene]

why would you pay some one else to do the work for you the hole point in a project is to enjoy building it, some people dont enjoy doing that so they just go out and by a new blade (weekend worrier) others like to learn new skills and build a bike completly custom to there self so its just what they've always wanted.

i wouldent give 2 hoots about resale value because 1. i know someone else would want it but not want to build it them selfs 2. i wouldent sell it for a very very long time anyway

[Caz]

i guess you would have to pay someone to do some of the work for you. There are always unforseen costs with these sort of projects, and they have a tendancy to go on and on and on.
This also means that by the time they are completed, technology has moved on yet again.

I've done Formula SAE / Student - seen the problems that you encounter along the way, had projects overrun, etc and I dont have the time and energy to do a similar project in my garage


The fact remains, the stock blade will still be a better bike. I get your point about making a custom but the little free time that I get, i want to spend riding my bike not fixing it! and if I want a project - I have a list as long as my arm of things that I need to do.. off the top of my head
- scooter needs a new crank
- shed and garage roofs need replacing (I hate flat roofs),
- downstairs bathroom needs replacing
- ZXR needs a good service and a few other things to get it back on the road.

shall i go on?

[rene]

guess theres only one way to find out witch one is better!

i also know people who have gone up thought the CC range (and attualy owned a blade) then sold it for a VFR400 becuase he enjoyed riding it so much more.

Same with me i enjoyed riding a RS250 more than any other bike i've riden so far (apart from corssers i love them to bits). but i like working hard for the speed rather than just cracking it back and off you go.

Thats another project id love to do RG500 engine into a RS250 frame. I've read out it been done a few times then i saw one while out riding (chaced him down a back road). i started talking to a guy and i fell in love with the bike!!



Yes please

[deviant]

So what we've established at great length is that Caz and rene aren't the same person?

For me, I don't really have an interest in the latest and greatest sportsbikes. I can't really afford one, and lets face it, I'm not that good a rider that I'd be any quicker on an 07 blade than a 93 ZXR on anything other than a dragstrip.

I do have an interest in engineering. I like playing with things and seeing what I can do. The GS400 will still be a slow, badly handling bike when I am finished with it. It may well be unsaleable - it certainly won't pay for the mods. But the journey is as much part of the fun as the end result.

But a condition on that is that I still want to be able to ride, and I still need a bike for transport. I'm lucky enough to have space for more than one bike. That's why the ZXR is staying relatively unmolested for now - I need one bike to work!

If I only had space for one bike, or if I wanted to spend all my spare cash on trackdays, or if the ZXR wasn't a far better bike than I am a rider, then my choice of bike might be different, and it would certainly be fairly stock.

Pick and choose. We're all having fun.

[superman]

for me the principal is ok but its not practical at all, i know the modern bike would be better plus they are built to standards an have to abide by regs etc(so me buying it from someone im putting alot of trust in em), i would rather save the pennys an get a stock bike. like caz said 2 there arent enough hours in the day to do it either. but if there were i wouldnt do it i think, the other thing is you need to remember what stuff you put on it incase it ever needed fixin hence the resale bein dodgy. i wouldnt mind stripping my 400 down cleanin it, warts an all then puttin it back together, maybe a winter job i could learn alot from that (if i could be bothered to put it back together in time)

[Boonie]

Facing the time factor with my project at the moment. As you sort one issue out another presents itself, to the point where you never actually finish the project.

Mods for my project are the Beet race exhaust and 120 jets working with the AMS ram air system. I'm also runing without an air filter for the track. Possible later mods could be cam reprofiling.

However, I have found with my R1 that what you think you are getting out of your engine (Yam quoted bhp) is far from actual. Getting the carbs balanced, and a good K&N filter, and some better downpipes are enough to give you the power back in your engine. Some NGK iridium spark plugs with some 99 ron fuel have an impact as well.

[Ballsout Racing]

I was searching the web and i found this site. I don't know if any of you have seen it but it has got some good info about what to do and what hp you will get for you money
http://www.versatilemarine.co.uk/spike/tuning.htm

Banjo

Very good, useful information, but things have moved on in the power stakes since then. The bikes he did came 1st and 2nd in the 2002 bemsee championship. In 2003 things moved on and they were blown out of the water

[Jamz]

I was searching the web and i found this site. I don't know if any of you have seen it but it has got some good info about what to do and what hp you will get for you money
http://www.versatilemarine.co.uk/spike/tuning.htm

Banjo

Very good, useful information, but things have moved on in the power stakes since then. The bikes he did came 1st and 2nd in the 2002 bemsee championship. In 2003 things moved on and they were blown out of the water

Ahh, that makes sense then!

I was sure racers in the last few years were getting a fair few more horses than that article was saying. I thought it was just being strangely conservative with the figures, but if it's old then that makes sense!

And confirms I'm not going mad!

Do you think 100hp is possible?

[Ballsout Racing]

Do you think 100hp is possible?

No.

Different dyno's can give very different readings. For instance, the dyno used at bemsee meetings is a Dynapro dyno, it reads some 6bhp less than Dynotechs Dyno which does not 'overead'. The most Dynotech have seen out of a ZXR is 83bhp, this engine was originally done by Slick Bass and was a 'labour of Love' . It has probably been improved by Dynotech and I understand now uses +1mm pistons (412cc) as allowed in bemsees SBK400 class.

The most I have ever heard of out of a 400 is James Walkers FZR400 (who is BDK) at 92bhp on their dyno(how much it would be on another dyno who knows?, although IIRC it showed 85bhp after an MRO race(not a Dynapro)). This engine would reputedly cost a customer £20k to build, it is very very special and apparently needs to be rebuilt after a race weekend to maintain power and reliability.

So there you go, that's my opinion

[Northern ANdy]

the yanks have one thing right, theres no replacement for displacement. Sure you get 83hp out of the zxr one day, the next its down to 82.5hp with a change in humidity.It's all to tangable when you are pulling every ounce of power.

[deviant]

Do you think 100hp is possible?

No.

disagree. you could. but it would be

a) expensive (definitely)
b) unreliable (probably)
c) not eligible for racing in pretty much any class.

if you could put up with all those, then I bet you could get 100bhp from 400cc. No harder than 200bhp from 800cc and motogp bikes make more than that (and hey, the WCM motogp bike used ZXR400 valve springs, so they must be ok!).

[Boonie]

£20K on an engine is throwing money away. You would do better to buy lighter wheels, better brakes, lighter subframes and bodywork. For that money you could even change the bike so that it can run without a battery which is a huge amount of weight lost.

Then you take the cash and go to the Haslam race school and learn to be a better rider.

Then you ditch the biggest amount of weight by hiring a personal trainer. Hell, I know I could stand to lose a fair few extra kilos, and that's gotta be worth as much as an extra 3-4bhp. There are loads of ways you can get more corner/top speed and better acceleration, most of which probably wont touch £10k let alone £20k, and it has nothing to do with the engine.

I saw a guy at Brands on a track day on an orange ZXR400 and he was easily the equal of the guys on 600's, even a guy on a new R6 which can't be any heavier than a ZXR these days. But it was the lines through the corners he took that made him quicker.