Rumour Mill Time

[deviant]

Hmm, maybe 25% more power than an F1 car, but trying to push around between two and three times the weight. Dream on if you think that's ever going to be faster either in a drag race or round a track.

Ultimate top speed could be more of a contest, as the Veyron has more power and probably a lower drag coeff, but a massive frontal area compared to an F1 car.

[edit: nice to see that superman's stats have backed me up on this (apart from I underestimated current F1 power levels). but you could have waited till I finished posting ]

[Jamz]

I'm sure if it was a top speed race they'd just change the wings and gearing on the F1 car and still spank the veyron.

US Indycars run on methanol with huge turbos, but are much heavier than F1 cars, but they AVERAGE over 250mph on some superspeedways, and a few years back drivers were having to consider wearing jet figher style g-suits to stop them blacking out!

They're slower than F1 cars and use ancient technology in comparison.

Veyron's may be fast - but in essence they are just a big old road car made to break a straight line record.

[RedexRobB]

On the subject of F1 top speeds

[Jamz]

On the subject of F1 top speeds

Nice find!

I would have actually expected a lot faster than that - I guess that's where the lack of cc's shows.

So an indycar even on track IS faster top end than an F1 car!

[RedexRobB]

Depends on the track, i know at the Indy 500 they are pushing 250 round there. The fastest average according to wiki is nearly 240 mph!

[rene]

a big oval is not a track stick a left and right bend in there and they'd be fecked

[deviant]

I was going to mention that honda, which they ran at Bonneville a while back, getting about 250mph.

Top speed is purely down to the tradeoff between power and drag. Weight is irrelevant so long as you have a long enough road and you can pick the ideal top gear ratio.

The Veyron makes more power than an F1 car. That part is simple.

Drag is a harder one to predict. Effectively the drag force is the product of the drag coefficient (how slippery the shape is) and the frontal area (how big it is). An F1 car is fairly aerodynamically inefficient, even with no rear wing - exposed wheels and suspension cause huge amounts of drag. Conversely I'd expect the Veyron to be pretty good - and even better if you took the mirrors and wipers off. So the Veyron almost certainly has a lower drag coefficient than the F1 car, but it's physically much bigger (in terms of frontal area).

If the Veyron has Cd x A similar to or lower than the F1 car, and you allow them to change gear ratios, then it will be faster because of the power difference.

The fact that an F1 car (the honda) which was optimised for top speed could only just get to the advertised top speed of the standard veyron suggests to me that a veyron set up for top speed would, in your words, spank the F1 car.

[superman]

i bet they get through some tires thoe dont they. 250 mph constantly on the same parts of the tire. never been a fan of it thoe i like to see a good race left right hairpin its all good. its alot like a chess game.
im just gutted the mighty veyron had be defeated ohhh well.

[edit] wuho some good news for the veyron lol. i would say you have some sort of engineering degree then.

[zxr_oli]

I was going to mention that honda, which they ran at Bonneville a while back, getting about 250mph.

Top speed is purely down to the tradeoff between power and drag. Weight is irrelevant so long as you have a long enough road and you can pick the ideal top gear ratio.

The Veyron makes more power than an F1 car. That part is simple.

Drag is a harder one to predict. Effectively the drag force is the product of the drag coefficient (how slippery the shape is) and the frontal area (how big it is). An F1 car is fairly aerodynamically inefficient, even with no rear wing - exposed wheels and suspension cause huge amounts of drag. Conversely I'd expect the Veyron to be pretty good - and even better if you took the mirrors and wipers off. So the Veyron almost certainly has a lower drag coefficient than the F1 car, but it's physically much bigger (in terms of frontal area).

If the Veyron has Cd x A similar to or lower than the F1 car, and you allow them to change gear ratios, then it will be faster because of the power difference.

The fact that an F1 car (the honda) which was optimised for top speed could only just get to the advertised top speed of the standard veyron suggests to me that a veyron set up for top speed would, in your words, spank the F1 car.

Surely the Veyron is already set up for it's maximum speed though?

[RedexRobB]

And another thing, the veyron has 6 more cylinders, turbo charged, and over 3 times the engine capacity than a F1 car. In my book that defo makes the F1 car faster, for being just as fast with less trickery.

[Jamz]

I was going to mention that honda, which they ran at Bonneville a while back, getting about 250mph.

Top speed is purely down to the tradeoff between power and drag. Weight is irrelevant so long as you have a long enough road and you can pick the ideal top gear ratio.

The Veyron makes more power than an F1 car. That part is simple.

Drag is a harder one to predict. Effectively the drag force is the product of the drag coefficient (how slippery the shape is) and the frontal area (how big it is). An F1 car is fairly aerodynamically inefficient, even with no rear wing - exposed wheels and suspension cause huge amounts of drag. Conversely I'd expect the Veyron to be pretty good - and even better if you took the mirrors and wipers off. So the Veyron almost certainly has a lower drag coefficient than the F1 car, but it's physically much bigger (in terms of frontal area).

If the Veyron has Cd x A similar to or lower than the F1 car, and you allow them to change gear ratios, then it will be faster because of the power difference.

The fact that an F1 car (the honda) which was optimised for top speed could only just get to the advertised top speed of the standard veyron suggests to me that a veyron set up for top speed would, in your words, spank the F1 car.

Surely the Veyron is already set up for it's maximum speed though?

Yup - that was the whole point of making them, wasn't it?

And I agree with RobB. You have to bear in mind that the Veyron is as fast as they could make a road car, whilst an F1 car is majorly stifled in just about every aspect, from tyre size to weight to air intakes to cc - and even then it's still a compromise to make it work on every track!

Isn't the Veyron a moot point considering the SSC Ultimate is faster in a straight line, on track, AND looks better?

[deviant]

[edit] wuho some good news for the veyron lol. i would say you have some sort of engineering degree then.

Is it that obvious?

Surely the Veyron is already set up for it's maximum speed though?

I don't know. It's not guaranteed - it pretty much depends on the 7th gear ratio. If you can lend me one (and a very long runway) for the day or provide me with accurate drag and rolling resistance data I could work it out for you.

And another thing, the veyron has 6 more cylinders, turbo charged, and over 3 times the engine capacity than a F1 car. In my book that defo makes the F1 car faster, for being just as fast with less trickery.

PMSL.

My ZXR makes 25bhp more per litre than a Veyron (no really, work it out!) from a 20 year old, naturally aspirated 4cyl engine. In my book that makes my bike faster than a Veyron.

You have to bear in mind that the Veyron is as fast as they could make a road car, whilst an F1 car is majorly stifled in just about every aspect, from tyre size to weight to air intakes to cc - and even then it's still a compromise to make it work on every track!

F1 car is constrained by the technical rules of F1. The Veyron is constrained by having to make it road legal. You couldn't put an F1 car on the road any more than you could set up a Veyron to win an F1 race. I'm not sure what your point is?

[masterofinsanity]

Dont know if any of you read fast bikes but check this last paragraph on the ninja 250 review.

"Right now its only rival is the Hyosung GT250R. Otherwise your looking at a more fragile and tiring 125.
We were excited to learn that a 400cc version is coming too. Small Sportsbikes are on the way back and the Ninja250R is a great example of why its definetly good thinking."


So whos ringing up for there pre order then.

Bozzie you pre-hijacked a thread

[Jamz]

F1 car is constrained by the technical rules of F1. The Veyron is constrained by having to make it road legal. You couldn't put an F1 car on the road any more than you could set up a Veyron to win an F1 race. I'm not sure what your point is?

Well the Veyron is the best road legal car they (VW/Bugatti) could make, but an F1 car is nowhere near as fast as they could make a racecar.

If Group B had been allowed to continue, now THAT would have produced some interesting cars...

Ever seen some of the open class hillclimb cars? The Pikes Peak Escudo is probably the best known example.

[superman]

hang on thoe you say the F1 is better cos the engine develops somet more compared to the veyron but dont F1 engines have to be replaced every 3 races cos they are shagged or somet but the mighty veyron is built to last lol.
im not technical but could you apply some of this lot to an old 2 stroke cos they clocked up high top speeds on the track didnt they.

hmmm i sort of had an incling when you started with ratios etc lol. what was it in. mechanical engineering or someting.