Nürburgring preparation

[crushedlizard]

A friend and I are planning a trip to the great Nürburgring Nordschleife in early August. He's going on a Factory RSV so he has no worries. But I will be taking the mighty ZXR. I'm not a religious man but I think there'll be a lot of praying for her safe return.

Basically, I've got insurance sorted (Carole Nash) and will be taking out some personal insurance etc and I've driven abroad etc (not ridden though). My main concern is tyre choice. I have a BT090 on the front that will be fine. But my rear BT090 has had a thrashing at Brands Hatch and the local twisties so needs changing. So do I go for soft or medium/hard?
I want some good rubber for when I get to the 'Ring' but it is 290 miles ride there, so would I be better off with a BT092?

I suppose 290 miles isn't going to square of a new tyre as we'll take a slighty twisty scenic route.

Any advice and suggestions would be greatly appreciated though. Not just about tyre choice either; any travel advice would be welcome.

Cheers

Oh, anyone here been to the Nürburgring ?

[rene]

get the 090's no point having plastic rubber around a track will kill the fun factor. You wont kill a tyre in that few of miles. Most sunday riders never come of the centre on there tyres remember

[zimm]

go on the set that are fitted and get new ones whilst there ..

[masterofinsanity]

you wanna speak to caz she's been a few times i believe.

[Caz]

But I will be taking the mighty ZXR. I'm not a religious man but I think there'll be a lot of praying for her safe return.

My first every bike trip was on the ZXR400 to the Nurburgring And I rode the ZXR over there 4 or 5 times. The only issue I ever had was a dodgy fuel tap

I want some good rubber for when I get to the 'Ring' but it is 290 miles ride there, so would I be better off with a BT092?

get the 090's no point having plastic rubber around a track will kill the fun factor. You wont kill a tyre in that few of miles. Most sunday riders never come of the centre on there tyres remember

Tyres - use standard road rubber! The Nordschleife is NOT a track..... It has standard ROAD tarmac, not shell grip like short tracks. Standard road rubber works well. I run Metzeler sportec M3s - no issue with grip.
a good friend of mine (with THOUSANDS and im not exaggerating here) of laps under his belt runs Diablos.
I rode the ZXR over there on BT010s with no issues

go on the set that are fitted and get new ones whilst there ..

Not a bad idea - but not as simple as you think. You can only fit tyres that are approved for your vehicle in Germany. Go over there with new tyres fitted

Oh, anyone here been to the Nürburgring ?

you wanna speak to caz she's been a few times i believe.

errrrrm.... just a few times Must be IRO 20 trips now, I've been going since 2002 and have done IRO 500 laps to date.
Just got back from our most recent trip on Tuesday - awesome weekend did about 50 laps

any travel advice would be welcome.

When are you going? And would you like to be shown the lines? I can probably arrange for a friend to take you around for a lap or two and show you the line - believe me.... its worth it!

A couple of pointers:
make sure your bike is road legal, and this includes exhausts. when I was there last weekend, they were standing by the barrier with a noise meter noise testing loud bikes and cars. A couple of my friends have been turned away due to loud exhausts.
You must have mirrors, indicators (use them both - youll need them) and lights

when riding the Nurburgring use your mirrors. I cannot emphasise this enough, it is NOT and I repeat NOT a track day. ROAD rules apply which means that if someone drives into the back of you and you are on the Left hand side of the track - it is your fault (going too slowly in the over taking lane)

remember- if you crash, you pay for *everything* from recovery, to marshalls time, to any damaged armco

Read this http://jocke.selincite.com/bikes/riding-nurburgring Theres some very good advise on there.

remember - the Nurburgring is a road. There are cars / coaches / campervans etc on there. Use your mirrors, and watch out for Porsches. There are some very fast guys out there, and the ZXR is no where near as fast as a lot of the vehicles that go round there.


sorry for the harsh tone - but two good friends of mine, both of which know the ring like the back of their hands crashed last weekend. One walked away, the other one is in hospital (nothing life threatening).

if you need any help with accomodation / routes etc just shout! If you havent gotten anywhere to stay yet, and you are planning on going on a full weekend, you may struggle.

most importantly - have fun n be safe. You'll love it!!

/Caz

[Caz]

oh, i know it seems obvious - but keep yourself hydrated.

Sunday lunchtimes get silly busy - expect track closures. We tend to go and spectate or have a coffee.....

[crushedlizard]

Thanks everyone. I think I'll stick with BT090's then, as I know them well so feel confident on them.

Thanks for the link and advice Caz. It must be good if you've been back that many times!!
I've read Ben Lovejoy's famous guide as well as a few others but not seen that link, so thanks.

I'm going there with no aspirations of beatimg my virtual ~7 min TT lap and becoming a hero!
I'm going to (try and) ride well within my limits, like I do when I ride on the road. I'm quite concerned about being wiped out by a hot hatch (or coach!) so will be checking mirrors.

I've learnt the course as far as playing simulators (GT4 and Tourist Trophy) but obviously they will be nothing in comparison to the real thing. But they give me some idea of whether it's a left or right coming up!

We'll be arriving on a Sunday so will be doing Mon -Thurs which, apart from Monday, is only open something like 17:00 - 19:00/20:00. We wanted to avoid the weekend rush but the short opening times might mean there's no escaping it.

Do you know any nice routes from Calais or recommend any nice hotels? I've heard Hotel An Der Nordschliefe is run by some biker and meant to be nice.

[deviant]

put your sticky rubber of choice on and ride over there. it'll be fine. You aren't going to wear out your tyres riding across Belgium (although you might wear yourself out and lose the will to live - ask Caz or any other regular 'ringer about the E40 ).

To put the 'squaring off' thing in perspective... I had Avon Viper Sports (AV59/60) fitted to my ZXR when it had about 15,000 miles on it. Vipers are sticky enough to scrape the pegs on a (roadgoing) ZXR without even worrying the tyres. A fortnight ago I'd done 4000 miles on them, including two trackdays. No sign of squaring off. I've just got back from holiday this evening (coincidentally one of the first places we went was to the ring - watching not lapping), and the tyres have now done 6500 miles, the last 900 of which (and a fair proportion of the rest) were entirely motorway work at high speed. They are now squaring off a bit, but not to the point where it affects the handling - a few days ago I was knee and toe down on alpine hairpins with full luggage fitted. I'll probably give them a swansong outing at a cadwell trackday in a few weeks time before retiring them.

In fact, sod it. Fit a set of Avons. They're cheaper than Bridgestones anyway.

[zimm]

thats mega mileage! .. i get about 2500 miles out of a rear tyre..

[Caz]

Thanks for the link and advice Caz. It must be good if you've been back that many times!!
I've read Ben Lovejoy's famous guide as well as a few others but not seen that link, so thanks

its what all my money seems to go on my colleagues find it somewhat amusing that I keep heading over to Germany for so many weekends per year
the other link was written by my other half - its a couple of years old now, but the same points still apply. I think its a good read (yes im slightly biased), but there are a lot of good points, that have (for the most part) kept us out of trouble.

I'm going to (try and) ride well within my limits, like I do when I ride on the road. I'm quite concerned about being wiped out by a hot hatch (or coach!) so will be checking mirrors.

Sounds like you are going there with the correct attitude - which is always a good thing to hear. You wander round the carpark and hear people talking about the place as if it was a UK trackday.
coaches arent really the problem as they go so slowly
things to watch out for are locals in golfs (watch out for ones on AW plates), Porsches and BMWs.... oh and as youre arriving on a sunday, watch out for the Zakspeed viper and the ring taxis.
indicate right to let faster cars/bikes know that you have seen them. And remember to only overtake on the left (alot of people wont undertake, even if you indicate left).

Im getting twitchy for my next 'ring fix now

it takes between 50-100 laps to learn the place, try and watch a couple of videos before you go. The simulators really dont give you a good idea of gradients.

If you look carefully on track, there are white dots around the place. These are turn in points which have been put there for driving courses.

Do you know any nice routes from Calais

ask Caz or any other regular 'ringer about the E40

We always do the Ben Lovejoy route - E40 to Eupen then the N67 and B258 to Nurburg. As Deviant says, the E40 is mind numbingly boring, and navigating the brussells ring road can be interesting, but the last 100kms or so are (for the most part) on nice roads. This route suits us quite well, and there are a good number of fuel stops! I recommend stopping at the McDonalds in Eupen for a drink, stretch your legs, and generally refresh yourself for the last stretch of the journey.

although you might wear yourself out and lose the will to live

which is why we no longer ride, and stuff both the bikes into a Grand Espace It's a little more bareable when you have someone to talk to

coincidentally one of the first places we went was to the ring - watching not lapping

When were you there? I've just gotten back... And werent you tempted to do a lap or two?

I've heard Hotel An Der Nordschliefe is run by some biker and meant to be nice.

I've never stayed there myself, but ill add my 2p anyway.
it is fantastically located if you want to stay in Adenau and if you have a Jahreskarte. You wont be buying the latter (unless your planning on several other trips this year), so you have a 15min or so ride up to the main car park. It's also not actually in Adenau, so you either eat at the Hotel, at Guilias (I think thats how its spelt), or walk about 15-20mins into Adenau.
We personally prefer to stay up in Nurburg, and everywhere is pretty much the same. Try Burgstube - I've not stayed there since its been done up, but its meant to be quite nice and its definitely within easy walking distance of the Pistenklause and the Lindenhof.
I havent stayed anywhere bad , some are better than others, and some are cheaper than others. Be prepared to pay cash though.


On a serious note - if you're going to ride on Sunday/monday, and you want some photos of yourself, email Mr Frozenspeed before you go (pm me for info). He's not always around, but he does take absolutely fantastic photos. If he knows you are interested in photos, he will find someway of identifying your bikes so that he catches you on track.

thats mega mileage! .. i get about 2500 miles out of a rear tyre..

Ouch! what do you have fitted? My sportec M3s currently have 6500miles on them (and atleast 200 laps of the ring) and I wont be changing them for my next trip to the ring in August.... I do have more tread left in the centre than on the edges tho

/Caz

[Gemini]

I've learnt the course

i think it'll take more than a few goes on the xbox 360 before you learn this track,

i bet only a fraction of racers know it like the back of their hand.

as i understand it, nurburgring is so difficult not only becuase of the vast amount of corners it has, but because many parts of the track look the same, so there are very few reference points. easy to mistake one bend for another!

power to you know mate, its something i wanna do, just gotta get round to it. enjoy yourself, ride safe

gem

[Caz]

Very few ever learn the nurburgring properly. And to add to it they do resurfacing work every winter - so it changes from year to year. This means you change your lines to avoid the bumps etc.

There are between 73 and 120 corners depending on how you count them, and the are all sorts of permutations of gradient/camber/radii etc....

it takes 50 - 100 laps just to know roughly where the line is

If you have them - its worth reading the Barrons guide in PB, he's one of the few people I would say knows the place like the back of his hand

[Caz]

oh and there was some nice exotica there the other weekend too. We saw this and this

/caz

[crushedlizard]

Thanks again for all the advice. I've ben watching lots of videos but like computer games, I doubt it translates well into 2D. I remember watching laps of Brands Hatch and when I got there it was very different - Paddock Hill slams you into the tank it's so steep. Never felt G-force like that!

I can imagine it takes 100's of laps to learn the racing lines. I only meant I learnt the course as in I'm aware of it's layout - obviously I have no idea how that translates into a fast line. It's like looking at a map of Brands - it's just a picture of corners, it doesn't tell you the line and it doesn't really tell you what the surface is like.

In the simulator, I take Hocheichen to Swedenkreuz flat out... I certainly won't be doing that in real life! In fact, I won't really be relying on it that much. I can see my self hammering along thinking "ok, sharp left over that crest", setting myself up, going over and seeing a hairpin right!

It took me ages to learn the virtual track. God knows how long it must take to learn the real thing. There's learning a road, and then there's learning how to ride that road fast.

Can't wait to get out there!

[crushedlizard]

Hey Deviant, how did your ZXR fair on the motorways with the 14/47? I've ordered the same gearing and was wondering if it makes motorways painfully high revving? I'm not intending to break any speed limits as I want a clean license/money by the time I get to the ring!
I think the max is 110kmh on some (dry) motorways isn't it? is that comfortably uner 10 000rpm?

How was the trip too? Did you find any nice roads?


EDIT: Good to see a Desmosedici out on the road. I expected them to all vanish into storage.