Couple of things

[Mori Man]

1st one:

Anyone had an experience of their clutch slipping while using semi synth oil or fully synth ?

I don't know what was in the bike when I got it but certainly it ran fine and never had the feeling there was a problem with the clutch.
I've got an oil account with the bike shop for motul semi synth and got them to refresh it just before chrimbo. I am now noticing that when the bike hit's about 10K the clutch is certainly slipping and if i do short shift around this range (clutchless) it really makes it noticeable. Could be a coincidence and the friction plates are becoming worn but the bike has only covered 12,500 miles - could be previous owner was brutal with the clutch. So before opening it up and swapping it out with others just wanted to know if the oil could be the culprit.

(I ask about full synth as it could be the shop put that in by mistake)

2nd one:

I've started to do MPG gathering, I thought I had put two gallons into the bike (9litres) but it didn't konk out until 152 miles done , now three gallons (13.5litres) is a strange figure to have done but maybe ! Is it possible to put 4 gallons in the bike on top of what's in reserve ?

This time I ran it on reserve for 5 miles - switched back to ON and it got about 400 metres up the road before it stopped , back onto reserve then into petrol station and I've definitely put one gallon in this time , so far 34 miles done

This testing is being carried out travelling around my city and going back and forth to another to pick up parts, speeds vary between 40~110

Oh, nearly 400 miles done since the clock swap (still not been out on the motorway yet) and I've never had any hot start problems , chain is due it's 1st tighten up and think the headstock bearing could do with a wee tweak too. Apart from that nothing else to report except "lovin it"

[cargo]

Clutch slipping......................................and oil.......................a favourite of mine......................

The short answer to your question is yes .

In my experience fully syn oil worrks fine with the zxr clutch...........................however I did once have a problem...................I bought and engine which had been running on semi syn oil. Being a good boy I gave that engine a serious once over before using it in my race bike and alll was well with it in fact the clutch was near as damned new. Up to then I had always used fully syn oil and saw no reason to change from that so I used it again in this "new" engine.................after a very few miles..................I got serious clutch slipping problems..................more or less ruined the race I was in..................Manx GP.


So IMHO if a clutch has been previously running in semi syn oil and you change to fully syn...............I reckon you'll get clutch slipping problems
And I would very much suspect the reverse would occur too.......................a clutch previously running in fully syn and then a change to semi syn................will also give clutch slip.

Ever since that race I have stuck ridgedly by a golden rule always use the same type of oil and if you do change.............. change the clutch as well.

I have to say I aslo spoke to the oil company tech dept and they accecpted that what I was telling them could well be true.................but they also said that fully syn oil in itself does NOT cause cltuch slip...............thay had done much testing...............and found that many of the clutch slip problems alledged to be caused by fully syn oil where in fact cause by people using fully syn car oil in their bikes.


And the standard L fuel tank tanks holds about 17 litres in total

[Mori Man]

In the "poor" past I always used car oils in my bikes and never had a problem (mineral), mostly Castrol GTX

As my finances improved I started to use Silkolene bike oil (the red stuff) which was also mineral.

Only since being in Japan have I had a bike running on semi synth - the ZRX and it's never missed a beat with it.

Going to have to think out my game plan here as i always think a BTL clutch should have mineral oil in it ........ it can wait a while though as ZRX is sheduled for surgery so don't wont to be left "bikeless"

Not a problem for everyday general use , only apparent when I'm giving it the berries



So no hope of getting 4 gallons in on top of reserve then - must of been 3

Cheers,

MM!

[cargo]

There is a lot to be said for using mineral oil.......................and change it regulary

A mate of mine got some sponsorship from Castrol and used their mineral bike oil changing it after every race.

I think it's only fully syn car oils that will cause clutch problems ? ? but I'd not be trying to find out

And yes my clutch slip started under extreme conditions.............but as the race progressed it got worse.............by the finish 150 miles in total...................it was fecked

[cdstirland81]

careful with car oil nowadays, they have all sorts of additives now to eliminate friction as much as possible, even the cheap toad! trust me, brother in laws B1H needed new clutch in the summer from trying, let alone doing a few miles on that!

i used to use shell yee ha car stuff in my tuned astra, and the stuff in it was like GT85! teflon, graphite, etc! a clutch would stand no chance!

cargo's got it nailed, stick with what you used, lol, having said that, i went from semi to fully in my old firestorm, and it never slipped accelerating, but had a "slipper clutch" feel banging down the box, nice on a v-twin!

[Mori Man]

Found a 20L drum of Yamaha lube for £110 so that's going in the SP motor once it's done. Seems to be mineral only as no mention of semi anywhere on it just "premium"

Kawasaki's Green MotoGP oil that's fully synth is classed for any engine but is £30 a litre Even their regular 4 litre can of goo is £50

Honda's oil is the cheapest but fear that it will put my bike to sleep or loose it's soul if I use

Going to strip out the clutch next week and throw in the h1 plates for now, new filter and new oil and see what happens. Might drop the sump and give that a rinse out - also see what sludge if any is in there

No worries about changing the oil regular gets done every 3 months on average regardless of miles.

Oh and while on about what oil to use - you should never use a synth to run you bike in, mineral only (await's the flak )

[Neosophist]

There is a lot to be said for using mineral oil.......................and change it regulary

A mate of mine got some sponsorship from Castrol and used their mineral bike oil changing it after every race.

I think it's only fully syn car oils that will cause clutch problems ? ? but I'd not be trying to find out

And yes my clutch slip started under extreme conditions.............but as the race progressed it got worse.............by the finish 150 miles in total...................it was fecked

Yes... I concur.

The problem with using car oil.. semi-synth or fully-synth is the additives in them called friction modifiers, they make the oil more slippy, which improves MPG in a car engine.. in a motorcycle the problem is these stop the clutch plates from sticking and cause clutch slipping.

If I recall correctly 10w40 doesn't have to have friction modifiers in it (but it can depending on make) but all other oils.. ie 5w30, 5w40 etc will have friction modifiers in them, so stay away from car oils

The other major problem with using car designed oil is that it isn't designed to go through a motorcycles gearbox.. the gearbox sheers many of the long chain polymers in the oil, rapidly breaking it down. I can't remember the exacty study but it was concluded that standard 10w40 car oil broke down so much it became 10w30 in less than 1000 miles.

Cheap 10/40 or even 15/40 in warmer places mineral oil shouldn't really be a problem in these older bikes and is cheap enough to change regularly which imho is better than 'expensive' oil changed infrequently.

As for your clutch problems.. it certainly could be down to the oil but it could also be co-incidence.

I have an NC24 VFR400 that was giving me clutch slippage at circa 10,000rpm+ and it only presented itself after an oil-change... turned out it was weak clutch-springs in the end. ^_^

You could always dump the current oil into a container and try something you know works and if your still having probs you know it isn't the oil so can re-use it.

My VFR gets Honda Ultra S9, you should be able to pick that up cheap and easy being in Japan. It's a great oil for all the 400's, comes in 1L cans and is available in at least 10w40 and 10w30. (Semi-synth btw)

On trackdays I tend to use Motul 15w50 as the bike gets toasty ^_^

[tobomoto]

Found a 20L drum of Yamaha lube for £110 so that's going in the SP motor once it's done. Seems to be mineral only as no mention of semi anywhere on it just "premium"

Kawasaki's Green MotoGP oil that's fully synth is classed for any engine but is £30 a litre Even their regular 4 litre can of goo is £50

Honda's oil is the cheapest but fear that it will put my bike to sleep or loose it's soul if I use

Going to strip out the clutch next week and throw in the h1 plates for now, new filter and new oil and see what happens. Might drop the sump and give that a rinse out - also see what sludge if any is in there

No worries about changing the oil regular gets done every 3 months on average regardless of miles.

Oh and while on about what oil to use - you should never use a synth to run you bike in, mineral only (await's the flak )

made me lol!

[Mori Man]

Just so we are clear on this - i haven't used car oils in my bikes for the past 15yrs min' and car oils at that time had no additives in them apart from the usual suspects (anti-foam etc...)

So, I've started with the easiest solution 1st - change the clutch springs.

Here's what a standard clutch looks like - this one's in a ZX-4 but can remember the H1 clutch looking the same:

P1190255.jpg

Here's the H2's BTL clutch:

P1190248.jpg

While everything was off:

P1190249.jpg

Install the Black ZX-4 Clutch cover

P1190250.jpg

Just about to go out and give it a try and see if it's made any odds - expect a report in about an hours time.

[Mori Man]

Wow , that's cured it

Think they've been tired since day one as the "vroom" factor has been raised

When i come to build the J2 motor I'm getting a good idea of what parts to replace before it goes in, it's just as old as this one and can only expect things to be past their best.

as I was going out the door the SP motor arrived and a BEET Ti system too - can is a pure race and sounds fookin awesome Right deep burble progressing into an utter din It's inspired me to get the F3 system finished off - only one header left to polish and spray the collector and it's done.

[masterofinsanity]

was gonna say you start bloody early but what's the time difference over there? good work and thanks for the pics

[Mori Man]

was gonna say you start bloody early but what's the time difference over there? good work and thanks for the pics

Should be 9hrs ahead just now.

That's the easy side to work on when on the side stand - all the oil out of the way.

Going to have to lean it against something to get the BEET casing done on the other side

[Neosophist]

Wow , that's cured it

Think they've been tired since day one as the "vroom" factor has been raised

When i come to build the J2 motor I'm getting a good idea of what parts to replace before it goes in, it's just as old as this one and can only expect things to be past their best.

as I was going out the door the SP motor arrived and a BEET Ti system too - can is a pure race and sounds fookin awesome Right deep burble progressing into an utter din It's inspired me to get the F3 system finished off - only one header left to polish and spray the collector and it's done.

Woo! I Thought it mite be

My VFR was dyno'd at 54hp with the knackered springs in it, i'm sure there was some slippage going on too as theres some odd dips in the power-graph, feeels so much better to ride now, has that 'vroooom' factor again as you put it! can't wait to get it dyno'd again

I put 10% heavy duty EBC springs in it and my god there stiff! will have hands like the hulk riding it.

[Mori Man]

Sad to say it lasted a day

Ordered up new frictions and going to dump oil and start a new

Was good while it lasted so can only get better Didn't notice it so much yesterday with wife on the back but then I don't hammer it half as much.

-3 this morning with a day time high of 9'c so might be next weeks job when it's set to get back up to double figures again

[Neosophist]

Sad to say it lasted a day

Ordered up new frictions and going to dump oil and start a new

Was good while it lasted so can only get better Didn't notice it so much yesterday with wife on the back but then I don't hammer it half as much.

-3 this morning with a day time high of 9'c so might be next weeks job when it's set to get back up to double figures again

Ah gutted Hopefully it'll be back up and running in no time at all! Least you've isolated one thing and won't have to change the clutch springs for a while now

I'll be over in Fukuoka around May time for a few weeks so if your still in Tsukuba, visiting the Ushiku Daibutsu is on my list and since it's not too far from Tsukuba i'd love to come and oogle your ZXR if you have the time