Don't run your engine on the side stand !

[Mori Man]

Why ?

Well, it's not good practice on any bike to start your engine and let it warm up before moving off - your not creating enough oil pressure for all critical parts to be lubricated for a start off.

But that aside, just look at you engine - an inline four tipped to one side so its obviuos that any liqued placed in a vessel at an angle gathers to one side - oil is a liqued.

Even after a hefty run sitting your bike on the side stand and letting it tickover the pressure is going to drop so its just best to avoid all together.

Now why more so on the ZXR than say other models, well the camchain is on the right side unlike ZRX11/12 , GPz9/1000/1100 and ZZRs whos tunnel is on the left (but I wouldn't be running these either).

Ideally you should be on bike with stand up and start it up , with or without choke on start to make your move ( in most cases you do need to give the carbs a few seconds to prime up) as bike warms up you take choke off or increase load.

Here is a vid of my bike on it's sidestand , I was trying to identify why it was only firing on two cylinders and since I had the clutch cover off it made me belive I had disturbed the pick ups leads.

On it's side stand at tickover the oil is never pumped into this chamber and even reving only a splattering gets in there. So if your wondering why it is at 13,000 Miles your needing to replace your camchain this is the probable cause, a chain immersed in oil will go for ever and a day unless being subjected to its full tolerance ie: racing /thrashing

So starting your bike in winter on its sidestand and letting it warm up till the fan comes on is doing this part no good - just think what it is doing to your right hand camshaft lobes too !

My bike lives on a paddock stand and when working/starting it is done on this. I think the FCRs actually cause it to stall on the sidestand as it only ever seems to run for about a minute

Anyhoo, the movie - soz for quality but was drizzling all day so was in bike shed





MM!

[cargo]

good call..............


Many years ago I spannered a 750 Yamaha OW01 it was a special homoligation model only very few actually made it onto the road as a road bike.
However in the manual it said that for racing use it was nesscessary to fill the bike with oil to the top mark and then add a further 250cc of oil............the reason ?
Cos the lean angles in racing left the oil pump pick up with no oil to pick up.............and hence a drop in oil pressure for a few seconds until the bike was upright again.
Those 250cc made all the difference

[Tirpitz]

Hmm......... interesting MM, good advice.

I generally don't but I have been known to. I won't any more.

There does seem to be a very great deal of variable opinion amongst very knowledgeable people, however, on the subject of stationary warming up. Many people say that you should warm the engine up before moving off as the oil needs to reach a sufficiently high temperature to reach its operating viscosity, i.e. a 10w40 will be at 10SAE if you set off with it cold, when the correct viscosity for under-load lubrication is 40 SAE. I have always warmed up my bikes stationary for a few minutes before moving off, but never to the point where the fan comes on. Just so that they tick over without choke and without tending to stall. Probably 2 or 3 minutes sat on it. I do feel that this is better, especially if the bike has been stood for a week or so that the top end may be dry-ish. Gives the oil time to circulate.

In addition, the bike should never be revved hard for the first couple of miles and never when cold to warm it up when stationary. There's some good advice on the Silkolene site here http://www.silkolene.com/index.php?calling=oilclinic Tey do say the engine must be warmed up before riding 'at speed' but don't actually say whether this should be done stationary or not. Either way, I don't think road speed has much to do with it, engine speed is surely the more important factor.

As several of us have said before, a good number of problems with ZXR engines we see on this forum are probably down to owner error

[Mori Man]

I'll do a vid of the top end running with the rocker cover off - not a lot of oil gets up there at tick over.

Never had a problem riding the bike "cold" , can be tricky in winter with slippy roads. As long as you keep your throttle action smooth until the engine is up to temp all should be fine.

Cars also have the same problem and some manufacturers make check valves in the oil filters to keep oil pressure up even when switched off - low wear engines.

On that subject - how many car drivers let their car warm up before driving of ? I sure dont - its start n go for me and again smooth throttle until upto temp'

[CaNsA]

good call..............


Many years ago I spannered a 750 Yamaha OW01 it was a special homoligation model only very few actually made it onto the road as a road bike.
However in the manual it said that for racing use it was nesscessary to fill the bike with oil to the top mark and then add a further 250cc of oil............the reason ?
Cos the lean angles in racing left the oil pump pick up with no oil to pick up.............and hence a drop in oil pressure for a few seconds until the bike was upright again.
Those 250cc made all the difference

Would it be worth putting a little bit exta in tne zxr then?

[Tirpitz]

I'll do a vid of the top end running with the rocker cover off - not a lot of oil gets up there at tick over.

Never had a problem riding the bike "cold" , can be tricky in winter with slippy roads. As long as you keep your throttle action smooth until the engine is up to temp all should be fine.

Cars also have the same problem and some manufacturers make check valves in the oil filters to keep oil pressure up even when switched off - low wear engines.

On that subject - how many car drivers let their car warm up before driving of ? I sure dont - its start n go for me and again smooth throttle until upto temp'

I'd be interested to see that MM and may well alter a habit of a lifetime after reading your stuff here. If it's not doing any good, and maybe some harm, warming up stationary then that's something I want to be cutting out totally. As you say, I deffo don't warm the car up before drivin away - but then it's the missus's, so it's not my motor to worry about

On the subject of what Cargo said about racing engines - this is one reason why I don't wheelie my bikes, ever. Not only does it knacker the gearbox but the extreme tilt of the engine uncovers the oil pickup and the pump sucks air. An excellent way to ruin a motor. IIRC gixxers are particularly prone to this sort of damage - probably not helped by the hooligans who owned them back in the day. Of course, if you're going to pass the bike onto someone else when you've wrecked it why worry, but for those of us who have them for keeps you don't want to be doing that

[Tirpitz]

Would it be worth putting a little bit exta in tne zxr then?

I wouldn't recommend it. If you overfill the engine you can do more harm than good. The oil system can over-pressurise for one thing. Also, the bottom of the pistons are supposed to be lubricated by splash. The level needs to be right for the big ends to hit the oil and cause a splash. If it's too high they are swimming in the oil and you don't get a good splash for lubrication higher up. Can also cause clutch slip too.

If the bike's spending a large proportion of its time at extreme lean angles on a track then this is balanced out but for road use you're going to cause problems.

[Mori Man]

If its not specified in the Race supplement I wouldn't be doing anything out of the ordinary regarding oil level.

Been investigating clutches through out the years , ZX4 & ZXR4H share much the same clutch

H2~ is the same throughout.

J2 is same as H2 & L except for Green springs

M1/SP ~ is same as H2 except for steels and frictions plus White springs

ZX600 2011 uses same dimension steels so for track use you could mix n match , the ZX steels come in 3 thicknesses

J1 clutch has 9 steels so they are another option to play with.

Just fitted a J2 clutch with Green springs - very nice , even set up the play and angles following the manual

[cargo]

I try and keep the oil level on the top mark.................makes sense given that one of the races I do is 150 miles...............

I dont think there is a lean angle oil level problem with the ZXR...............thw OW01 was the only bike I've ever heard of as having such a problem

[razzcolio]

im not sure weather the two are connected, or weather its just me driving in a particular way.

but ive always started my bikes on there side stands and always let them warm up for like 5-10 mins on there side stands
(while i piss about with my helmet or me phone and put me gloves on and stuff)
ive also atm with my ZXR had some issues with my clutch bogging down on set off..

like i said i dunno if there connected but this is what happened lol
this morning after reading this thread.
i left work sat on my bike and started it up, lil choke and bike completly level
(well ok as level as my fat ass would make it)
put my helmet on and my gloves and straight away set off (about 1-2 mins idle time)
then as i left the end of the (long) road, i turned my choke off.

the bike set off from every, 33 sets of, traffic lights perfectly all the way home...

[Mori Man]

On the sidestand you can take your clutch cover off with out loosing oil - you can bet only a splattering gets in there while the motor is running on the side stand.

Chances are the oil is being spat out of your clutch plates hence having problems , I am guessing that on the way home from work you had no issues with starting level and moving off still under choke ?

I am sure learners are taught these days to let the bike warm up to give them one less thing to think about while riding and also so they can cope with throttle control better

With fuel injection on bikes now you don't have a choke per say , the ECU richens the mixture until the bike is warm - do riders still sit and let these warm up ? The difference in the revs is negligible so waht are they waiting on if they do ?

MM!

[cargo]

From a racing point of view warming the bike up is vital...............I'm going straight out to ride flat out..............


When I'm out on the road bike I just start it and go.....................taking it steady for a few miles................. lets the tyres get some heat in too

[Mori Man]

From a racing point of view warming the bike up is vital...............I'm going straight out to ride flat out..............

Agreed

From every MotoGP I have ever gone too the bikes are fired up not even on paddock stands but on the ground and as level as possible ( But hey, a race bike should have no side stand lol) , I cant remember ever seeing them being lifted onto paddock stands to rev the tits off them.

The race meeting here , again in the warm up paddock bikes are free standing and given handfulls - I think its a given you want full oil in the sump and it pumping around the motor at all times. Race engines are short lived yet they take the time to care for them, same practice on a road bike and your going to have it for years

EDIT: Just realised , yes I do start my bike on paddock stand but bike is on a slope and what is important is - The oil level is showing halfway in the sight glass, this has to be the most important point.

[razzcolio]

Chances are the oil is being spat out of your clutch plates hence having problems , I am guessing that on the way home from work you had no issues with starting level and moving off still under choke ?

I am sure learners are taught these days to let the bike warm up to give them one less thing to think about while riding and also so they can cope with throttle control better

no issues at all

and i did my test a lil under a year ago and ur right they are now told to let it idle on its stand for a while till its warmed up lol
but then there bikes are toad and should be scrapped so what ya expect lol
bet the instructor when he gets home doesnt let his bike idle on the stand...